Could use some input on this...

So, Ferrumshot has been basically dead weight dragging down otherwise decent raid groups for over a year now, and I'm thinking it's about time I TR him. Right now, I have a couple major considerations, namely going sorcerer for the past life and then pure monk Arcane Archer, or going 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer or fighter half-elf AA. Both would have Ten Thousand Stars, and both would be aimed at being an archer 100% of the time.

The first pure monk ends up being problematic due to the ridiculous number of feats archery requires (Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Critical, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Zen Archery, Combat Archery, Bow Strength) and the restricted nature of monk bonus feats (Zen Archery, Dodge and Toughness are the only relevant choices), and Arcane Prodigy, so I may skip this one.

The other would look something like:
Half-elf 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer or fighter (Arti lets me take Rogue dilly and use UMD for strong scrolls)
Str 12
Dex 16 +2 tome +3 level-ups (unless I can find a +3 tome) to get Combat Archery
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 16 + level-ups
Cha 8

1. Artificer - Point Blank Shot
2. Ranger - FE: Evil Outsiders
3. Ranger - Weapon Focus
4. Ranger
5. Ranger
6. Ranger - Precise Shot***apparently this is getting added automatically to ranger 4 post update, so I'll have another feat to spend...not sure what I'd take in its place. Skill Focus: UMD? Another Toughness? A bonus to my feats?
7. Monk - Zen Archery
8. Monk - Toughness
------Stone of Shared Experience-------
9-16 Monk - Dodge, Mobility, Improved Critical, Improved Precise Shot
17. Monk
18. Monk - Shot on the Run
19. Ranger - FE: Undead, Constructs or Elementals
20. Ranger

This means Manyshot comes kind of late, and I have levels 16-18 without either Manyshot or Ten Thousand Stars, but my hope is to get most of the way through those levels running lower level quests, or easy-ish Bravery Bonus stuff so the weakness isn't too noticeable. I could instead move the 2 ranger levels down, but 10K Stars seems more worthwhile (not as big a boost as Manyshot, but it happens 50% of the time, rather than 1/6th of the time).

Epic levels are kind of up in the air, but at minimum I'd want to get into Grandmaster to twist the +2 passive Ki ability. Really, this character looks like it is going to be pretty weak until around level 23. Not great, but better than he is now.

Half-elf gets me: +3d6 Sneak Attack damage, Human Healing Amp 20%, flexible stats with Human Adaptability, and possibly Human Versatility for Damage Boost.

Monk 12 gets me: 10K Stars, Water III stance (+3 Wis, +1 passive Ki to fuel 10K Stars without needing to melee), Abundant Step, maybe Earth III stance (+3 Con, +1 to crit multiplier), faster movement, Improved Evasion, 3 bonus feats, some immunities/resistances, Wholeness of Body for some cheap between-combat healing, +3d6 Sneak Attack damage, Shadow Fade (when I have the Ki to afford it), Ki gen while sneaking, +20-30% healing amp, and some other stuff of minimal relevance.

Ranger 6 gets me Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Manyshot (maybe Precise Shot), the useless to me Die Hard, TWF and ITWF, 6-minute Ram's Might (maybe a case for Extend), weak Resist Energy, Jump, Tumble, Merfolk's, two weak Favored Enemies, Sprint Boost.

Artificer 2 gets me: Rapid Reload (apparently has a small bonus to bow attack speed according to the forums), UMD access and a boost to it, +30% scroll damage and I think +1 level to scroll CL, access to trap skills (debating whether I want to even bother with these), presumably a 1 AP prerequisite for AA...if not, I have to take Mental Toughness somewhere.

Not sure what I want to do with my skills. If I decide to basically just do Concentration and UMD, I'll probably move the points from Int to Str, Dex or Wis, otherwise I'll see if I can get trap skills up to epic levels to fill that role in addition to the archery and decent scroll healer stuff.

Open to suggestions or comments on what could/should be done differently, better leveling order, etc...

So, I TR'ed Ferrumshot, and got to thinking about the feats...

Will probably take Manyshot at 9th, Improved Critical at 12th and Improved Precise Shot at 15th (feats during the Stone of Experience levels), giving me Manyshot when I get back to real leveling, and then swap the feat out when I take my 6th Ranger level.

If ranger really does get Precise Shot for free at level 4 post-update, I'm kind of at a loss for what extra feat to get. Right now I will end up taking (10 feats total in heroic levels, 7 standard +3 monk):
Point Blank
Weapon Focus
Mobility
Shot on the Run
Improved Critical
Improved Precise Shot
Dodge
Toughness
Zen Archery

What should me last feat be? Options I'm entertaining include:

    Precision - To-hit should be pretty good on this character with all the ranged feats, but it's possible that missing still may be an issue with the new combat mechanics, and with 6d6+8 sneak attack damage, bypassing Fort will be a big deal. Wondering whether this still comes with the -50% damage penalty. If it does, then it's not worth it, but if that got removed, this is probably at the top of the list.
    Skill Focus: UMD - Epic levels will make UMDing easier, but my breakdown with an 8 starting Cha means I'll probably just be getting to 39 when fully buffed and gear-swapped. I'd prefer to have Heal scrolls available more readily when in standard gear, and this will help. May be something to take at 18 and swap once I'm into the epic levels.
    Nimble Fingers - Right now I'm looking at leveling UMD, Spot, Search fully every level, putting 1/2 a rank into Disable Device on monk levels, and kind of ignoring Open Lock on monk levels, which gets DD up to something like 19 or 20 ranks at level 20, and OL to maybe 10 by level 20. That looks a little low, and if epic trap DCs are high enough that I'm feeling the loss of a few ranks and only moderate Int, but low enough that I'd see a worthwhile difference with a small bump, this may be on the table.
    Toughness #2 - I'm honestly not much of a fan of picking multiple Toughness feats when there are other options available, but this character will probably have rather mediocre HP, so it couldn't hurt.
    Other suggestions?

I love posting on The Vault. Such useful replies.

cdr wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 11:21am:

Ruh roh Raggy.

cdr wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 11:21am:


10k stars does work with with bows though.

21 wisdom assuming 16 base +2 tome +3 levelups brings us to

21 + 7 item + 1 exceptional + 2 insight + 3 monk wisdom enhanements (can you get 3 at level 12? not sure) +1 helf wisdom + water stance + boat buff = 40 wisdom.

I guess it could work, if you were willing to dedicate yourself to gearing out a niche flavor build.

Not quite clear what you're going for here, conceptually... "constant burst"?

The build is fine. Goodthings runs a nice 10k/manyshot archer.

He's in channel too Ferrum. Hit him up.

Eladiun wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 12:02am:


Into what?

Eladiun wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 1:08am:


One sentence doesn't necessarily rule out the other. 

i thought zen archery just substituted your wisdom for bow to-hit (and possibly damage) and that was it

Okay, I can comment now that the work weekend from hell is over (worked 34 hours in 2 days, with 5 hours of traveling worked in there as well).

My goal is to be using the bow 100% of the time. Yes, I know that non 10K Stars/non-Manyshot archery blows, but I A) have always liked archers in D&D, and B) think it is utterly ridiculous to spend basically every feat I have, and adjust an entire build concept around using a bow, and then only actually do so 2/3 of the time--I don't spend 1/3 of my time using an off-weapon on my melees who are focused in one. That the devs keep dicking around with archery is disheartening, but this kind of build looks like it can at least make it worthwhile to have the bow out most of the time, and I'll live with the mediocre DPS for the rest.

Having trap skills is a nice bonus--the character this TRed from was an 18 ranger/1 rogue/1 fighter (from about 4 years ago), who had trap skills. I like doing traps, and having that ability (along with UMD) will mean that even if I'm not the top DPS contributor, I'll be able to add other things to the party.

Also, keep in mind that we're getting Archer's Focus (up to +30% damage I think when standing still) and that we all like to discount the DPS lost to monsters that move, which archers don't really contend with.

My consideration for Extend was due to figuring I'd have very little SP to spend on Slaying Arrows and Ram's Might, and due to my using Madstone Boots much of the time (now at least). That's all not very relevant. Precision looks like a much better fit if it is losing the damage penalty post update.

As for Wis, the goal is to put all but 2 level-ups in Wis (for Dex a 16 +3 tome +2 levels will get me Combat Archery, which is probably more valuable than the extra 2 Wis bonus to 10K Stars). Wis is going to be my to-hit and translates to the chance for 10K Stars to fire off more than 1 arrow per shot. I'm fine investing some time to gear the character a bit, and he's a TR so he has a little bit of gear to begin with.

I could LR out of the Int if I decide the trap stuff is irrelevant and stick those points into Wis or Str. That's something to decide after playing the character for a bit.

Did Goodthings LR/TR out of his build? That he had been bringing his along for LoBs and such has heartened me regarding the concept.

i have a similar build concept but i wasn't afraid of melee

i went 11 ranger 6 monk 3 artie

dex of 10 means no combat archery for me the dex investment seems too steep for me anyway

the melee side with a 62 stunning fist dc is quite enjoyable

11 ranger gives me fe's manyshot twf feats precise and improved precise plenty of sp and with ha  and max,very nice self healing.

3 artie over 2 gives me a cure mass light with potions if i need to use it and any element of my choice for 5 min.


btw after extensive testing 42 is where the 4th arrow starts to proc and at 54 i notice 4 arrows much more than at 42.