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Destiny reset cost steathchanged. (Read 16019 times)

Eladiun Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Two Time Loser Posts: 8398 Location: Rhode Island, USA Joined: Jun 17^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #50 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:11pm	Print Post
	Munkenmo wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:06pm: There's no professionals at turbine. I say this despite liking maj mal, but things have definately been the same or worse since his appointment. One of the great limitations of QA is you can only test what you have been told has changed in a system this large. If the developers f' up version control and things end up in the build that aren't suppose to be there they will not get caught. if this fix wasn't suppose to go in till U16 I'm certain Maj's team never even looked at it. Why would they.

	Nevynn wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 11:38pm: Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment. Calvet wrote on Oct 20^th, 2011 at 12:18pm: I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.� I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all. Quote: Eladiun is an awful person
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Gawna Ex Member	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #51 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:14pm	Print Post
	I have to totally fucking agree with DarkForte: "At least we know now their communication issues with us are just as bad as their internal communication." All those Turbine fucks are willing to just throw each other under the bus and not be honest about what's going on. Tolero was just trying to keep the teeth gnashing to a minimum and not concerned with imparting factual information.


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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #52 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:14pm	Print Post
	From Tolero Quote: Ok so until Eladrin's change goes in next month, we've created a coupon for a free loom to help folks who are sitting in the waaaaay too high price reset range with their trees: 10LOD This coupon is usable 3 times per account, and expires on 11-12-2012.
	« Last Edit: Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:15pm by Munkenmo »
	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #53 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:15pm	Print Post
	Dear Stainer, I love you for this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4723945&postcount=338 Love, rest


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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #54 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:17pm	Print Post
	Eladiun wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:11pm: One of the great limitations of QA is you can only test what you have been told has changed in a system this large.� If the developers f' up version control and things end up in the build that aren't suppose to be there they will not get caught.� if this fix wasn't suppose to go in till U16 I'm certain Maj's team never even looked at it.� Why would they. Lucky for him people in his industry would understand that better than I, to me it still doesn't look good. I'd hate to have his CV, and it makes me feel really bad for him.

	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #55 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:21pm	Print Post
	So another thing I realized to be true. Plenty of people say "the devs don't even play this game!!!" Well yeah. They know just how fucked up it is, why would they waste their time with it? Man it's like epiphany after epiphany for me today.


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Schmoe Epic Poster Offline One world, one soul Posts: 4219 Location: A chair Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #56 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 11:24pm	Print Post
	stainer wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 5:31pm: Looks like they sent a dev out to take the blame. http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4723901&postcount=325 It doesn't make sense. They have revision control, and project tracking software. Having half a fix go into production should be fucking impossible. I don't want to say he is lying, but... Hi everyone, As you all found out, we 'fixed' the bug with epic destiny reset costs where it was checking for platinum but taking copper pieces. This was supposed to be a two-part fix, and I didn't get the second part into the patch. (I thought that the first half was going into Update 16.) The cost to reset epic destinies shouldn't be 200k platinum - that's way too much. In Update 16, the cost to reset an epic destiny will be 1,000 platinum per action point spent in the tree - a max of 24,000 pp for a full tree. Each time you reset a tree, a price multiplier is supposed to go up, which will decay back to the base cost over the next two days. Resetting destiny trees isn't supposed to be traumatizing, and this wasn't intended to be a crazy cash grab. We're looking for a few interim solutions to make things less painful until my half of the fix can get in. I'll let you know once I hear what we can do. Sorry again for the mistake. __________________ "Raar." Eladrin is offline Add to Eladrin's Reputation� �Report Post� � I read that as someone else was doing the first part, and he was doing the second part.� As someone intimately familiar with multi-part patches, I will say that it happens.� In my company we have much stricter policies and something like that never would have made it out the door, but as we've seen with DDO: Beta Edition, they don't have the internal procedures to meet those standards.
	« Last Edit: Oct 10^th, 2012 at 11:31pm by Schmoe »
	"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate, Leaving only charcoal to defend - Finally I understand the feelings of the few, Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we were all equal in the end." -Waters
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Schmoe Epic Poster Offline One world, one soul Posts: 4219 Location: A chair Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #57 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 11:29pm	Print Post
	Eladiun wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 6:11pm: One of the great limitations of QA is you can only test what you have been told has changed in a system this large.� If the developers f' up version control and things end up in the build that aren't suppose to be there they will not get caught.� if this fix wasn't suppose to go in till U16 I'm certain Maj's team never even looked at it.� Why would they. Less than two weeks ago I was in a high-level meeting that boiled down to this exact concept. You can't test for the absence of things that you have no reason to be there. The domain of possibilities is essentially infinite. It's an intractable problem. These types of errors have to be avoided prior to ever reaching the QA threshold. That's where good revision control comes in.

	"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate, Leaving only charcoal to defend - Finally I understand the feelings of the few, Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we were all equal in the end." -Waters
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popejubal Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline fnord Posts: 6364 Location: Argo Joined: Aug 6^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #58 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 11:51pm	Print Post
	Quote: I'm 97.4% sure she ate Downs syndrome out of a lead lined bowl for breakfast this morning.� Thanks for punishing players who end up stuck with your buggy piece of shit ED's and want to change them!� GAWNASMASH#&)@(#$&(@_#$_)@# Depending on just how bad Downs syndrome is for your teeth, this might be a reasonable hypothesis.

	fnord
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sephiroth1084 Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #59 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 2:17am	Print Post
	They deleted and infractioned my FTFY on the Cube's post. Quote: Originally Posted by Cubethulu View Post We appreciate feedback, but pointing out how we at Turbine have done something stupid yet again is something we really don't want to see. Please keep it within the boundaries of our delicate sensibilities. Apparently one of being told that you did something idiotic, told about how you don't like being told about it, or that you have delicate sensibilities offended their delicate sensibilities. I'm expecting another infraction soon for this one: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4724472&postcount=416
	« Last Edit: Oct 11^th, 2012 at 3:57am by sephiroth1084 »

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Hordo High Rabbi Offline Le Douchebag Posts: 2405 Location: Cordova, Tennessee Joined: Jun 30^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #60 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 7:57am	Print Post
	Do I detect that you might, possibly, be slightly irritated by Turbine's asshattery?

	I am the Rabbi, goo goo g'Jew! Who doesn't <3 Gornn? GORNN II 4:3:17 - For Gornn sent not Hordo into the world to save the party; but that the party through him might be wiped. [QUOTE=404error;4155294]Hordo I don't want to steal you from these forums because your almost an icon here. ;p [/quote]
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siftrant Korthos Resident Offline what? Posts: 30 Joined: Nov 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #61 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:28am	Print Post
	Schmoe wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 11:29pm: Less than two weeks ago I was in a high-level meeting that boiled down to this exact concept.� You can't test for the absence of things that you have no reason to be there.� The domain of possibilities is essentially infinite.� It's an intractable problem.� These types of errors have to be avoided prior to ever reaching the QA threshold.� That's where good revision control comes in. This isn't entirely true. It is possible to test for changes entering the system which aren't accounted for or expected. If you have a mature process you can check for whether files (libraries, modules, etc.) have been altered from the previous revision, and you can do it in an automated fashion; checksum files upon release of a revision, compare checksums upon each build of a new revision. Also, proper source control and issue tracking should provide a method to provide a very obvious method for communicating which files, and depending on your use of code inspection tools, what lines/functions have changed. This isn't to say that bugs won't make it past QA, but there are ways to minimize "escaped code".


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Schmoe Epic Poster Offline One world, one soul Posts: 4219 Location: A chair Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #62 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:47am	Print Post
	siftrant wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:28am: This isn't entirely true.� It is possible to test for changes entering the system which aren't accounted for or expected.� If you have a mature process you can check for whether files (libraries, modules, etc.) have been altered from the previous revision, and you can do it in an automated fashion; checksum files upon release of a revision, compare checksums upon each build of a new revision. Also, proper source control and issue tracking should provide a method to provide a very obvious method for communicating which files, and depending on your use of code inspection tools, what lines/functions have changed. This isn't to say that bugs won't make it past QA, but there are ways to minimize "escaped code". You have 3 developers all making independent changes that modify 6 different processes for release A, and another developer making another independent change that modifies one of those same processes for release B. As a QA, how do you verify that the release B changes didn't slip into release A? Should QA be expected to negative test every feature in any state of development? As I already mentioned, the best mechanisms to prevent these types of errors are revision control and adherence to other procedures such as code reviews that occur well before QA ever sees the software.

	"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate, Leaving only charcoal to defend - Finally I understand the feelings of the few, Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we were all equal in the end." -Waters
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stainer Arkat's Bitch Offline Gawna's big sexy crony! Posts: 12345 Location: gawna's nuts Joined: Jan 28^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #63 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:52am	Print Post
	Schmoe wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:47am: You have 3 developers all making independent changes that modify 6 different processes for release A, and another developer making another independent change that modifies one of those same processes for release B.� As a QA, how do you verify that the release B changes didn't slip into release A?� Should QA be expected to negative test every feature in any state of development?� As I already mentioned, the best mechanisms to prevent these types of errors are revision control and adherence to other procedures such as code reviews that occur well before QA ever sees the software. I would think they have a schedule for fixes/revisions that includes actual dates, rather than "when you get to it".

	Nilazgrc: For all those familiar with loreseekers/sentinels.... Dont run with Stainer.... Guy is a tool. Black list his toons. kmack can drive the tractor. The Vault donates to charity. JDollar wrote on Apr 25^th, 2013 at 4:47pm: Stainer likes tractors
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Bigjunk Horoluth Raider Offline Hjeal meh! Posts: 2686 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2011 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #64 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:29am	Print Post
	Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


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siftrant Korthos Resident Offline what? Posts: 30 Joined: Nov 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #65 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:31am	Print Post
	Schmoe wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:47am: You have 3 developers all making independent changes that modify 6 different processes for release A, and another developer making another independent change that modifies one of those same processes for release B.� As a QA, how do you verify that the release B changes didn't slip into release A?� Should QA be expected to negative test every feature in any state of development?� As I already mentioned, the best mechanisms to prevent these types of errors are revision control and adherence to other procedures such as code reviews that occur well before QA ever sees the software. Mature processes. All changes are linked to a tracked issue. All check-ins are commented and the comment references the tracked issue. All issues are associated with their intended release. You can check this set of information in an automated fashion to make sure that what is supposed to be in the release is in the release and what isn't isn't.


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Eladiun Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Two Time Loser Posts: 8398 Location: Rhode Island, USA Joined: Jun 17^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #66 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:49am	Print Post
	sephiroth1084 wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 2:17am: They deleted and infractioned my FTFY on the Cube's post. Apparently one of being told that you did something idiotic, told about how you don't like being told about it, or that you have delicate sensibilities offended their delicate sensibilities. I'm expecting another infraction soon for this one: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4724472&postcount=416 Awesome Post

	Nevynn wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 11:38pm: Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment. Calvet wrote on Oct 20^th, 2011 at 12:18pm: I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.� I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all. Quote: Eladiun is an awful person
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livefreeordie Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 362 Joined: Nov 21^st, 2011	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #67 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:52am	Print Post
	Wait.� So you are buying that it was only half a fix?� Not a whole fix that went though, and then Turbine sees it pissed off to many people to quickly and decided to add a part 2 of the fix?
	« Last Edit: Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:52am by livefreeordie »

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Maxwell Edison Bailiff Offline HADOUKEN! Posts: 3142 Location: Bologna Joined: Jul 13^th, 2011	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #68 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:53am	Print Post
	who fucking cares?

	� ��
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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #69 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:54am	Print Post
	Bigjunk wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:29am: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. To be fair, with Turbine you can guess either one in every instance. Problem is, you will only be half right.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Eladiun Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Two Time Loser Posts: 8398 Location: Rhode Island, USA Joined: Jun 17^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #70 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:01am	Print Post
	siftrant wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:31am: Mature processes.� All changes are linked to a tracked issue. All check-ins are commented and the comment references the tracked issue.� All issues are associated with their intended release.� You can check this set of information in an automated fashion to make sure that what is supposed to be in the release is in the release and what isn't isn't. Yes, but this is above the QA level as was stated in his original post.

	Nevynn wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 11:38pm: Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment. Calvet wrote on Oct 20^th, 2011 at 12:18pm: I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.� I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all. Quote: Eladiun is an awful person
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Schmoe Epic Poster Offline One world, one soul Posts: 4219 Location: A chair Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #71 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:11am	Print Post
	livefreeordie wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 10:52am: Wait.� So you are buying that it was only half a fix?� Not a whole fix that went though, and then Turbine sees it pissed off to many people to quickly and decided to add a part 2 of the fix? shrug I've seen it happen enough that it seems plausible for a company whose processes can't even prevent bug fixes from dropping out of new releases over and over and over.

	"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate, Leaving only charcoal to defend - Finally I understand the feelings of the few, Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we were all equal in the end." -Waters
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Schmoe Epic Poster Offline One world, one soul Posts: 4219 Location: A chair Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #72 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:13am	Print Post
	stainer wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:52am: I would think they have a schedule for fixes/revisions that includes actual dates, rather than "when you get to it". Lol, I hope so! From my experience, something like this is more a matter of human error (checking into the wrong stream, for example) in an area for which there aren't adequate controls to catch the error. They have multiple streams of development ongoing at any one time, so I doubt it's as simple as "don't check in until I tell you to check in".

	"As my windshield melts, and my tears evaporate, Leaving only charcoal to defend - Finally I understand the feelings of the few, Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend, we were all equal in the end." -Waters
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siftrant Korthos Resident Offline what? Posts: 30 Joined: Nov 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #73 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:15am	Print Post
	Schmoe wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:13am: Lol, I hope so!� From my experience, something like this is more a matter of human error (checking into the wrong stream, for example) in an area for which there aren't adequate controls to catch the error.� They have multiple streams of development ongoing at any one time, so I doubt it's as simple as "don't check in until I tell you to check in". That is what branching and tagging is for.


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siftrant Korthos Resident Offline what? Posts: 30 Joined: Nov 9^th, 2010	Re: Destiny reset cost steathchanged. Reply #74 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:18am	Print Post
	Eladiun wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 11:01am: Yes, but this is above the QA level as was stated in his original post. The view of QA being a separate team from Development is part of why companies fail to solve problems like this. QA is, almost always, much more effective when entwined with the development process as opposed to something done afterward. Such a change requires new behaviors on the part of QA, Development, and product owners but it does produce better software.


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