Flav wrote on Aug 21^st, 2014 at 5:44pm:


can you tell them that is 'gay and retarded'

there's no reason they cant make weps that arent as powerful as thunderforged but with nice unique effects that aren't available on thunderforged. swapping weapons has been part of the game from lvl 1-27, why suddenly go against that trend for lvl 28? they should really consider doing epic tome page shit and i believe you should make that argument for us

who wouldnt want to hotbar some epic versions of this shit

for reference http://ddowiki.com/page/Tome_of_Untold_Legends

• Coronation - +5 Morningstar: 1.5[2d4] Piercing and Bludgeoning damage, Expanded Threat & Increased Multiplier: 19-20/x3): Ribcracker V, Persuasion, Purple Augment Slot, Red Augment Slot
• Deathnip - +5 Heavy Pick: 1.5[1d6], Expanded Threat: (19-20/x4): Heartseeker IV, Seeker +10, Red Augment Slot
• Phosphor - +5 Heavy Mace: 1.5[2d4], Double Expanded Threat: (18-20/x2): Sun Burst, Righteous, Coruscating, Red Augment Slot
• Razorend - +5 Shortsword: 1.5[1d8], Expanded Threat: (15-20/x2 including Keen I), Hemorrhaging, Keen I, Tendon Slice 10%, Red Augment Slot
• Serrulae - +5 Battleaxe: 1.5[1d8], (20/x3), Vertigo +10, Metalline, Orange Augment Slot, Red Augment Slot
• Sever - +5 Dwarven Axe: 1.5[1d14], (19-20/x3 including Keen I), Limb Chopper, Destruction, Red Augment Slot
• Skiver - +5 Dagger: 1.5[1d4], (19-20/x2), Archmagi, Spell Lore VI, Efficient Metamagic - Extend I, Efficient Metamagic - Empower II, Red Augment Slot
• Twinblade - +5 Bastard Sword: 1.5[2d8], (19-20/x2), Axiomatic, Anarchic, Orange Augment Slot, Purple Augment Slot

i dont believe it would invalidate the weps, they would still be solid compared to niche, secondary, situational options. but it would give us more options. and if invalidation really was an issue why do all the other items outshine the thunderholme raid loot?

eighnuss wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 12:25am:


We already told them that we weren't really understanding the reason...

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 21^st, 2014 at 4:16pm:


Seems to be the same shit as found on Scourge Choker (or cannith crafting): http://ddowiki.com/page/Blood_Rage

If it's so, it stacks, but good luck using it:
When the rage fades, it turns into lethargy which lowers your melee and ranged attacking speed by 25%. This fatigue lasts 12 seconds. There is absolutely no way to prevent or remove this effect, you WILL suffer from it if you wear an item with the blood rage effect. (Tested after U19)

Thanks Paryan.
Some thoughts and observations:
* Masterwork and Epic Tapestry Shards for upgrades?  So the are upgrade able items.  But more ingredients FFS?
* Epic fanged Gloves - arcane Dex with WIS stat bonus?  Strange combo.
* Mentau's goggles - +15 STR and +12 seeker on one item.  Nice for melees.
* Epic boots of the innocent - nice to put all the tacticals on one item, but does anyone use them at end game though?
* Epic belt of thought is a nice general item. Wow.
* Epic Emerald Gaze is a waste of time.
* Epic Minos is a bit meh, nice to have the +40 in head slot.  Mythic looks better with Ins CON +3.
* Epic Litany is nice.  Would be nice if Turn the page lasted longer on the Epic version.  6 secs - meh.  By level 28, saving 50% SP on 2 spells is not that exciting, especially with eROSS/mysterious bauble and unlimited pots.
* Epic Deific diadem - it looks good on first pass, but having +11 to WIS/CHA/INT is not that useful to many toons is it?
* Purging the Pantheon - meh.
* Epic Ring on Unknown - situationally useful for the Whirlwind ward I guess.
* Epic Rune Arm - what do people think of that?  Looks ok without being stellar.
* Circle of Malevolence - what's the thinking on this?  How many undead tanks do we have in game?  Can't see PM's that want intimidate and incite for their melee attacks?  At least it has 3 harms for PM's - swap item I guess.
* First armor (Mythic emerald guard?) has Mithral property - have they fixed the problems with Mithral and PRR?
* Epic Seraphim is nice if you're a turning cleric build.  Would be perfect if it had healing lore, otherwise, TF stick is better for caster.
* Epic cloak of ice isn't going to replace Mabar cloaks or Jewelled cloaks.
* epic quiver - -50 conc is a bit blatant and clunky.  Why not make it only useable by certain classes if that is their intent?


I can see people are excited, but overall I think it is a bit OTT power creep. At least they haven't gone to +12 stats yet.  What is the next raid going to offer?  As someone else said, rather than obsolete other items, make things of similar power that makes people choose.  Mix and match some nice items.  Have some items suited to certain classes/builds.
Having nice items from 3-4 raids would make it very interesting for different builds.
Otherwise you get the CITW effect of it becoming a dead raid very quickly, or clerics not wanting to run it as it offers them no incentive.

Flav wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 5:58am:


I take your points Flav, I didn't mean to come across as too ambivalent, but good loot design requires a plan or vision over time - not just from update to update.

Loot seems to either fall into the meh or "must have" category these days.  Not much leaves you thinking how you might combine it or build around it.
I liked it when you had to plan out what combo of items you might need and then swap in and it to suit the need.  But there were always interesting combos.  And swap items can be great too - eg. planar gird.

If that gear is for Pally's by design, great!  I can see how it might help.
If the drop rate is 1 in 4,000,000 (ie. Deathwyrm) - than back to "meh" again.

I guess I haven't played my Pally in about 4 years, so I wasn't thinking in that context.

Some of the items should offer great combos for certain classes or builds - the Cleric turning item is nice, but not perfect - maybe that is by design.
The +15 STR and +12 seeker item is going to be a must have item for nearly any melee.

An example of scratch-your-head design is the lantern ring (HH).  Why insightful WIS +2 when other HH stuff has +4.  How loaded up is the necklace of mystic eidolons?
That ring is obviously intended as a cleric item, but by lvl 26/28(?), you've already gone way passed Ins WIS +2.
Why not ins +4 like other items, or Exceptional +2.
You just looked at it and go, that's nice but the ins WIS +2 is going to be wasted on 90% of users.

Maybe the PC had a lot of input - I don't know, but much of that raid loot doesn't seem to have the player's insight to it?

One question on Epic fanged Gloves - you say for Pally - why do Pally's need arcane Dex?

It is not just harm, it is Improved Harm...

They could have just made it CL15 instead of people asking when we will get IH.

Flav wrote on Aug 21^st, 2014 at 6:14pm:

And I bet when they fix it, it wont be retroactive. 

For those arcane casting dex-based paladins!

eighnuss wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 11:29am:


They can't do squat, man.

Remember, the PC is merely a group of supposed yes-men. Besides, I have the sinking suspicion that it is the PC's recommendation to nerf everything in the game to the point where we are all playing paladins and bards.

If you want those fucking weapons epicified then you will have to go the Occupy Stormreach way... and eventually they might listen... and give in by giving you weapons that sucks anyway they really really do not want to obsolete Thunderforged Weapons

Epic LOTD lol

When I see these items I see 2 must haves.   4 No fucking ways(3 of the armors) and the rest as options for gearsets.

If you include them you might have to reworks some of your other stuff, but frankly this is something we have been missing since the cap was raised from 20....Multiple useful gear sets not just a single set of gear to rule them all.*


*-wherein 1 gearset is individual to a build and part of it.  Now thebuild is the static part and there is more than one way to gear it at cap.