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Jon Van Caneghem
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Pale master illusionist for EE
Sep 2nd, 2014 at 2:56am
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I was thinking of droping SF:E and GSF:E for illusion focuses and spec illusion at AM tree for the PK sla.
It is only 10 sp and with very small cooldown so even if you fail a couple of times the sp you used to instakill would still be less than using a regular non-sla spell.

I realise that i will lose 1 necro DC from AM tree and 2 DC enchant and wanted to know what you guys think, is it worth the trade off?

Also with will saves that low on content that mobs have high fortitude (gianthold/stormhorns) that -2 to enchant DCs is not going to matter as my discos will work anyway.

Also what you guys think on taking insightful reflexes on a non evasion pure wizard? cos i personaly think it's useless but most pure builds i came across utilize it.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2014 at 2:58am by Jon Van Caneghem »  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #1 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:32am
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Lol at illusion spec. Why don't you already have insightful reflexes?
  

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Jon Van Caneghem
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #2 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:46am
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I already have insightful reflexes, picked it up at lvl 1. It boosts my reflex for lots and that helps but not as much as it would on an evasion toon.
my feats are:

maximize
insightful reflex
necro focus/greater necro focus
illusion focus/greated illusion focus
quicken
extend
empower
highten
spell pen
past life wizard

I was thinking to ditch insightful reflexes or extend and get greater spell pen but necrotic aura just sucks without extend..
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #3 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:52am
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Seems ok, leave it alone.

If you feel you're missing spell pen make a TF pen stick.
  

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Jon Van Caneghem
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #4 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 3:57am
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Alright, thanks buddy.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:29am
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Do not give up insightful reflexes, taking half damage from AoE is a huge boost to survivability and the less you are concerned with staying alive the more you are able to do everything else.

PK has a double save which lowers it's effectiveness compared to other instakill spells. You can somewhat mitigate this by using FoD on casters to avoid their high will save and use PK on high fort mobs (their low will save most likely won't be enough to resist the spell). Still it is weaker then it's counterparts.

If you decide to go illusion in any case then make sure to take 3 ranks in draconic presence for an additional stacking 3 dc for PK (and other fear based spells).

Why are you concerned about sp? And even if so keep in mind that necro focus gets you enervation sla which you'd do well to utilize and profit from low sp cost and higher instakill success rate.

Enervation sla is also nice to have against orange named. An EE orange named HP goes down to EN level after rapidly casting energy drain+ enervation + sla enervation. Casting additional level drain spells once they are off cooldown is a lot less effective since negetive levels lower the maximum hp of the target so the closer the current hp is to max hp the greater your returns are for each neg level (during the cooldown the current hp goes down since the party is beating the mob and the maximum hp goes up since it recovers negative levels rapidly).

Live long and prospore pale one.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #6 - Sep 2nd, 2014 at 2:20pm
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:29am:
PK has a double save which lowers it's effectiveness compared to other instakill spells. You can somewhat mitigate this by using FoD on casters to avoid their high will save and use PK on high fort mobs (their low will save most likely won't be enough to resist the spell). Still it is weaker then it's counterparts


It's weaker all right, but it can be a spammable SLA (=perma quickened and hightened) without the atrocious cooldown and SP cost of PWK and FoD. And as you mentioned, against melees it's almost the same as FoD.

SayWhatAgain wrote on Sep 2nd, 2014 at 10:29am:
Enervation sla is also nice to have against orange named. An EE orange named HP goes down to EN level after rapidly casting energy drain+ enervation + sla enervation. Casting additional level drain spells once they are off cooldown is a lot less effective since negetive levels lower the maximum hp of the target so the closer the current hp is to max hp the greater your returns are for each neg level (during the cooldown the current hp goes down since the party is beating the mob and the maximum hp goes up since it recovers negative levels rapidly).

Going all Necro is nice... till the mob has Death Ward. That was a nasty surprise for my fledgling level 15 Pale Master when she tried to battle druids and dryads in Druid's Deep (heroic). So while going full Enervate build is VERY potent when Necromancy works, it will be much less potent when it doesn't; I'd prefer to have some other SLAs like MM/CM spam from Archmage tree, just against DeathWarded mobs.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #7 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 12:07am
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Enchantment SLAs are the best IMO. Spamming hypno and dance is very nice when trash is death warded. The DC threshold is much lower so you can spec for necro and still have no fail enchantment for most mobs.
  

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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #8 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:00am
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Enervation SLA is uber. It's super useful.
PK has cool animation and that's it.

Huh Dryads have DW ? Been instakilling em since u 17 so they "don't come back". Maybe have to be faster with targettting em ?

In heroics, dbf, Polar or Otiluke solve all your casting problems. PWS or Hold if you dont have spell power or something, but heck you can complete even Devils and shit with just Elemental damage as Wizzy.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #9 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:17am
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Wipe wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:00am:
Enervation SLA is uber. It's super useful.
PK has cool animation and that's it.

Huh Dryads have DW ? Been instakilling em since u 17 so they "don't come back". Maybe have to be faster with targettting em ?

In heroics, dbf, Polar or Otiluke solve all your casting problems. PWS or Hold if you dont have spell power or something, but heck you can complete even Devils and shit with just Elemental damage as Wizzy.


Am I missing something on enervation? It's a good spell, but I can just slot it...using it as an SLA saves me what? 5 whopping SP?

Hell I can whip out 100 scrolls of it if I really need to.
  

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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #10 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:34am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:17am:
Am I missing something on enervation? It's a good spell, but I can just slot it...using it as an SLA saves me what? 5 whopping SP?

Hell I can whip out 100 scrolls of it if I really need to.

I see your point here. I slot it if I can.  The problem with that is level 4 wizard spells are good.  I like to run DD, Death Aura, WOF, Ice storm and Neg energy burst on my PM. 

I could be wrong here but I think that scrolls have zero spell pen would, if true, make them useless on EE.  I say this because it seems like "every time" I have tried an Enervate scroll on any difficulty higher than EN they get "blue shield".
« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:35am by Red Sox H8 Yankees »  

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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #11 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:41am
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I consider it as 10 sp debuff for every Finger (adding 1-4 DC to it ), much like 10 sp Hypno for every Mass Hold.
Plus I really hate the slow casting time of Energy Drain/Enervation.
Anyone else Quicken Wails, Fingers and Circles ?
Plus it's level 4 - that is packed with useful stuff.
Energy drain as main debuff is total sp hog, Wail/Symbol as "debuff", hmm, impractical.

Can't imagine scrolling it in addition to all the shit you click / keep eye on. Swapping main weapon every 15 seconds eww.
Good suggestion I suppose.
EDIT : Oh I forgot, Halt Undead sla is not utterly useless either. You can even charm Tor skellies with Command for 10 seconds or so. It's fun for 3 sp or something like that.
« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:46am by Wipe »  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #12 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:47am
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I sually just carry around that stack of scrolls in case I run out of sp and don't want to pot.

Hypno fully meta'd for 1 sp is pretty sweet, but there's no meta's to use on enervate.
  

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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #13 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:48am
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Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:34am:
I see your point here. I slot it if I can.  The problem with that is level 4 wizard spells are good.  I like to run DD, Death Aura, WOF, Ice storm and Neg energy burst on my PM. 

I could be wrong here but I think that scrolls have zero spell pen would, if true, make them useless on EE.  I say this because it seems like "every time" I have tried an Enervate scroll on any difficulty higher than EN they get "blue shield".


Well, I'm not using them on drow...they work fully on mobs without SR.
  

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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #14 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 8:02am
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Pretty sure I have Quicken on Enervate SLA.
Yeah Hypno is cool too but I would probably go for Web SLA if not Necromancy.
And to be honest, 64- 65 Enchant on Palemaster - you catch everything anyway except Shadarkai, they are such pain that I'd rather Finger+Enervate SLA /PWK em immediately, rather than Dance or such.
Heightened, Quickened Web is sp bitch, something like 60 sp.

I guess PK Sla is good if your PM is really crème de la crème for another instakill.
But single target kills are something you do between Mass Hold+Eburst/ Wail/Circle cooldowns.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #15 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 3:52pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:17am:
Am I missing something on enervation? It's a good spell, but I can just slot it...using it as an SLA saves me what? 5 whopping SP?

Hell I can whip out 100 scrolls of it if I really need to.


As others have mentioned it's slotting enervation means giving up something important.

Scrolls, in addition to requiring a double weapon swap and having only 14 spell penetration, are slow and can be interupted by incoming damage. Not practicle.

Going enervation means you get bouns dc to necro rather the enchantment/conjuration and necro is harder to get to a reliable dc.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #16 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 3:58pm
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Wipe wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:41am:
I consider it as 10 sp debuff for every Finger (adding 1-4 DC to it )
-snip-


Enervation does 1-4 neg levels, that translates to 2-8 saves debuff or dc increase (each negative level reduces saves by 2). It wasn't always like this but it has been for a long while now.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #17 - Sep 4th, 2014 at 5:51pm
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Wipe wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:00am:
Huh Dryads have DW ? Been instakilling em since u 17 so they "don't come back". Maybe have to be faster with targettting em ?


They don't have it themselves, just druids throw mass DW on them too, which is pretty annoying. I mean, it's ok that DW blocks instadeath effects, but I can't even damage them while they are DeathWarded.

You're right, I probably needed to target them faster. But so far PM heroic levels are way more problematic than robot sorc heroic levels - Reconstruct and tons of SP rock.

Wipe wrote on Sep 4th, 2014 at 7:00am:
In heroics, dbf, Polar or Otiluke solve all your casting problems. PWS or Hold if you dont have spell power or something, but heck you can complete even Devils and shit with just Elemental damage as Wizzy.


Hm, never used Otiluke before, gotta try it next time. And DBF I kinda skipped, because the difference in damage between it and common fireball is not that noticeable before level 15ish, and it still has all the drawbacks of REF save and missing moving mobs. Maybe I was doing it wrong. Also should be mentioned that my PM was a first-lifer, so no fancy greensteel to boost SP pool, which was vanishing pretty fast at pre-epic level.
  
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Re: Pale master illusionist for EE
Reply #18 - Sep 5th, 2014 at 1:05am
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Web SLA is awesome. It's a shame that you can't take SLA's from more than 1 school anymore.
  

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