Vault - Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection

5 Foot Step

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Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection
Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:31pm

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Legendary Dreadnought

Barb:	pick = 17-20x4 (+12)	axe = 17-20x3+2 (+10)	khopesh = 15-20x3 (+12)	warhammer = 16-20x3 (+10)	rap/scim = 13-20x2 (+8)
Bard:	(light)pick = 17-20x4 (+12)	axe = 15-20x3+2 (+14)	khopesh n/a	light mace = 14-20x3 (+14)	rapier = 15-20x3 (+12)
Pally/ranger:	pick =� 18-20x5 (+12)	axe = 18-20x4+2 (+11)	khopesh = 16-20x4 (+15)	warhammer = 17-20x4 (+12)	rap/scim = 14-20x3 (+14)

Divine Crusader

Barb:	pick = 16-20x4 (+15)	axe = 16-20x3 (+10)	khopesh = 14-20x3 (+14)	warhammer = 16-20x3 (+10)	rap/scim = 12-20x2 (+9)
Bard:	(light)pick = 16-20x4 (+15)	axe = 14-20x3 (+14)	khopesh n/a	light mace = 14-20x3 (+14)	rapier = 14-20x3 (+14)
Pally/ranger:	pick =� 17-20x5 (+16)	axe = 17-20x4 (+12)	khopesh 15-20x4 (+18)	warhammer 17-20x4 (+12)	rap/scim = 13-20x3 (+16)

Some assumptions: Weapons are measured in average added iterations of critical damage over 20 swings. Differences in base damage (e.g. d8 vs d6) are insignificant compared to even a single iteration of damage. If added iterations are equal, not using a feat trumps wider critical range trumps higher base damage.

Also assumes that all Barbarians take Critical Rage, all Bards are Swashbuckling, all Paladins have Holy Sword, and all rangers take the level 12 core in both Tempest and Deepwood.

« Last Edit: Nov 8^th, 2015 at 4:30am by 5 Foot Step »

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[] Madame President Offline Posts: 10532 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2015	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #1 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:49pm	Print Post
	nigga you crazy: it's elf ranger scimitar TWF or drawf dwarven axe fighter TWF for melees.
	« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:49pm by [] »

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Metal-Beast Abbot Raider Offline \m/ Posts: 767 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2014	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #2 - Nov 8^th, 2015 at 12:16am	Print Post
	I'm afraid it will take more convincing for me to believe a Light Hammer is good for anything. Even in LD. I have no real arguments with anything else.

	I Got Nothin'.
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #3 - Nov 8^th, 2015 at 1:24am	Print Post
	Metal-Beast wrote on Nov 8^th, 2015 at 12:16am: I'm afraid it will take more convincing for me to believe a Light Hammer is good for anything. Even in LD. I have no real arguments with anything else.� You're right, it should be a light mace in that slot for the d6.

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[] Madame President Offline Posts: 10532 Joined: Oct 16^th, 2015	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #4 - Nov 8^th, 2015 at 12:41pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Nov 8^th, 2015 at 1:24am: You're right, it should be a light mace in that slot for the d6. LOL that's MUCH better than a light hammer!


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Orange Flash Waterworks Kobold Offline Can you get the citation? Posts: 159 Location: Japan Joined: Dec 1^st, 2014	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #5 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 9:49am	Print Post
	update 29 didn't change anything in this calculation right?


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DoRayEgon Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1042 Joined: Apr 4^th, 2014	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #6 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 9:53am	Print Post
	Orange Flash wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 9:49am: update 29 didn't change anything in this calculation right? Not that I can see, unless something broke that I am unaware of...


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #7 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 12:08pm	Print Post
	Orange Flash wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 9:49am: update 29 didn't change anything in this calculation right? With the level 30 feat in play you could make a case for LD barbs swapping from picks to khopeshes since there aren't any DPS feats left to take. The damage multiples are even, but the wider range for khopesh grants a DPS edge in non-scaling critical effects. My build will keep picks because I don't run in LD all the time.

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Orange Flash Waterworks Kobold Offline Can you get the citation? Posts: 159 Location: Japan Joined: Dec 1^st, 2014	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #8 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 3:03pm	Print Post
	ok ty (this post should be up all the time, i always check this when i'm about to do a new melee build)


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #9 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 4:33pm	Print Post
	NP

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painkiller Waterworks Kobold Offline Posts: 188 Joined: May 14^th, 2013	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #10 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 10:07am	Print Post
	would somebody be able to do better with something like a 17 barb/3 bard with swashbuckling and critical rage? I know you lose melee power from losing barb capstone (and death frenzy) but would the extra multiplier(s) make up some of the difference?


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Orange Flash Waterworks Kobold Offline Can you get the citation? Posts: 159 Location: Japan Joined: Dec 1^st, 2014	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #11 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 10:15am	Print Post
	i use swashbuckler but with tier5 of warchanter for the +1 multiplier on 19-20, so you can increase dps, but still won't change the choice of the weapon, light pick will be strongest in crusader and for LD maybe HandAxe could be the best


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Post "balance" TWF/SWF endgame weapon selection Reply #12 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 10:23am	Print Post
	painkiller wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 10:07am: would somebody be able to do better with something like a 17 barb/3 bard with swashbuckling and critical rage?� I know you lose melee power from losing barb capstone (and death frenzy) but would the extra multiplier(s) make up some of the difference? You can get 13-20x3 (12-20 in DC) with rapier or kukri, but it doesn't really come out ahead because of losing Death Frenzy and capstone. You used to be able to stack crit rage and competence bonus so swash light pick was 13-20x4 in DC pre "balance" update. It locked you out of capstone and into light armor though.
	« Last Edit: Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 10:26am by 5 Foot Step »
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