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VisirTheNoob
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Monk?
Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:03am
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Am I crazy or was the monk nerf for more than 2.5w?
  
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raybob
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Re: Monk?
Reply #1 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 10:04am
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Given that it was Turdbine again, the real nerf was stealthed so no one could complain about it.
  
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TornadoJoe
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Re: Monk?
Reply #2 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 6:22pm
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No it's just that you're shit
  
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Rose-tinted Goggles
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Re: Monk?
Reply #3 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:02pm
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VisirTheNoob wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:03am:
Am I crazy or was the monk nerf for more than 2.5w?


Doesnt melee power add to the 2.5w base damage?
  

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Re: Monk?
Reply #4 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:47pm
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Rose-tinted Goggles wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Doesnt melee power add to the 2.5w base damage?


Yes.
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Monk?
Reply #5 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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Pseudonym wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:47pm:
Yes.

It is a good sized front number hit. 1d6 + 3 is 6.5 avg per die x 2.5 = 16.25.

Blitzing with prowess, let's use 375 MP for an easy low number, and 300 without prowess.

4.75 multiplier during x 16.25 = 77 front number nerf on non crits.

65 without prowess. 71 average over haste boosting duration.


  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Digimonk
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Re: Monk?
Reply #6 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 10:18am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:46pm:
It is a good sized front number hit. 1d6 + 3 is 6.5 avg per die x 2.5 = 16.25.

Blitzing with prowess, let's use 375 MP for an easy low number, and 300 without prowess.

4.75 multiplier during x 16.25 = 77 front number nerf on non crits.

65 without prowess. 71 average over haste boosting duration.

The funniest part about this newest confirmation that the devs don't understand how their own game works is that it gutted wrap damage in heroics and low epics.

Take http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Scraps_of_Enlightenment for example.  ML13 and a good option until epics.  Pre-nerf, it was comparable and reasonably competitive with other TWF classes wielding things like http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Vulkoor%27s_Edge.

Post-nerf?  Removing 2.5w in that level range was literally a 30-50% base dmg per hit reduction depending on other gear and Enhancement points because you don't get all the other sources of +W, melee power, etc. to compensate.  But that's okay because it's only 10% at cap, right?   Roll Eyes


Here's the OP gem from Stainstar for reference:
Quote:
Handwrap Monks are still an outlier in terms of DPS. When compared to other Melees (and even other Monks), Handwrap Monks still deal substantially more damage than other similar builds with similar gear. This is, in part, due to an increased number of Weapon Dice while wielding Handwraps. In retrospect, the buffs they got in the transition to being "real" weapons made the additional damage dice much less necessary.

To correct this, we are changing the innate Unarmed Strike feat that Monks get every 4 levels to grant +1 to Attack while using Handwraps instead of 0.5[w]. This reduction (a total of 2.5[w] for pure Monks) brings Unarmed Monks much closer to other High-DPS Melee builds of similar gear. The overall reduction in DPS will depend highly on build and gear; the average we're seeing is about a 10% drop on a capped Pure 20 Monk.

Yeah...  nope.  Bet they had zero clue what that "10%" change would do to heroics.  Also bet they had/have zero clue that there are multiple classes in heroics and end-game that beat a wraps monk.  Clearly, since the devs don't know how to build a better toon, it's not possible.
« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2018 at 10:21am by Digimonk »  
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Re: Monk?
Reply #7 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:15am
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Blizzard has trillions of hours worth of logs, invites the highest tier players to test things and offer feedback, has several pro-level players on staff who play at a competitive level...

And they still can't balance things for shit.

SSG is full of passionate but amateur level players with, apparently, very little experience outside of DDO.  The lack of understanding how basic things like DPS rotations work should give you an idea of how terrifying it is when they try to balance something.
  
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raybob
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Re: Monk?
Reply #8 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 4:55pm
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Zehnpai wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:15am:
Blizzard has trillions of hours worth of logs, invites the highest tier players to test things and offer feedback, has several pro-level players on staff who play at a competitive level...

And they still can't balance things for shit.

SSG is full of passionate but amateur level players with, apparently, very little experience outside of DDO.  The lack of understanding how basic things like DPS rotations work should give you an idea of how terrifying it is when they try to balance something.


Passionate?  Is that some kind of codeword for shitsticks?
  
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Digimonk
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Re: Monk?
Reply #9 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:21pm
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raybob wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Passionate?  Is that some kind of codeword for shitsticks?

You misunderstood him.  He's talking about Pacman LARPs.
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Monk?
Reply #10 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 8:38pm
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Digimonk wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 10:18am:
Post-nerf?  Removing 2.5w in that level range was literally a 30-50% base dmg per hit reduction depending on other gear and Enhancement points because you don't get all the other sources of +W, melee power, etc. to compensate.  But that's okay because it's only 10% at cap, right?

Nah, fam. Nerfing levels 1-28 ( and chopping off its balls at heroics ) is fine because the handwraps that enable the dps are levels 29. wait, what?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Digimonk
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Re: Monk?
Reply #11 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:30pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 8:38pm:
Nah, fam. Nerfing levels 1-28 ( and chopping off its balls at heroics ) is fine because the handwraps that enable the dps are levels 29. wait, what?

Yeah, pretty much exactly that.
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Monk?
Reply #12 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 10:06pm
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Digimonk wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Yeah, pretty much exactly that.

I really love how shitstar's thread was labeled as "let's talk", then proceeds to not say another word for the entire month.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Pseudonym
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Re: Monk?
Reply #13 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:58pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
I really love how shitstar's thread was labeled as "let's talk", then proceeds to not say another word for the entire month.


It's even funnier when you realize that they already compensated for unarmed strike when they were adding base damage to wraps by making said base damage terrible in comparison to other two handed and even many one handed weapons. Grave wrappings have lower base damage than heroic sos, because logic! If they wanted to remove the 2.5w, they should have adjusted the base damage of every single pair of named wraps to have them follow some semblance of logic.

Monk hasn't been the king of dps ever since the Duality nerf, and with -2.5w coupled with pathetic wraps base damage and a subpar dps tree they've become unpleasant to level.
« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2018 at 11:59pm by Pseudonym »  
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