acidpickachu wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2019 at 9:30pm:


Right on, I was talking about Filmsy's thread.

Rubbinns wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 1:06pm:


Yea.

However the ability to do 75% of what pre-duality nerf monks were doing, with an AoE ability, from range?

It’s honestly mind boggling.

acidpickachu wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 2:07pm:


That could be solved by making doubleshot for dual xbo builds apply at 50% of value. Similar to how repeaters are 1/3rd the value.

Great crossbow mechanics have a pitiful sustained rate outside of NHB/Fusilade, that even with new reaper debuff settings, would still not dominate the quantity of dps builds that current Inquisitive displays.

Thrower has a very high ceiling, and on an adequately invested character, can rival inquisitive through infinite use of 10K and the fastest adrenaline recharge rate, by throwing 6+ stars at a minimum each attack. It does not translate that well to underpowered characters, and requires exact class selections, unlike Inquisitive, which have shown to be high skull viable on any class icon you wish.

acidpickachu wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 2:37pm:

Inquisitive doubleshot rate at 50%, and repeaters increased to 50%. I still think Inquisitive is more versatile here and still ahead in damage.

It's the same weapon die for both heavy repeater and crossbow, but getting the +1/+1 critical profile increase in the level 12 core, and law dice allows them to pull ahead. A lot more complicated getting a +1/+1   critical bonus on your repeater, which will cut into the amount of sneak attack dice, and repeaters are never regaining the law dice lost.

IDK how we can balance repeaters to match the inquisitive tree. Even though the 12th lv core is egregiously out of place, in terms of relative class core power, where class cores levels 6 to 12 only either grant a +1 range, or a +1 multiplier. And not both. It really should be in a tier 5 or higher core at 18, but it makes heroic play with it worse, while still not even addressing the dps imbalance being discussed here.

acidpickachu wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 3:42pm:


I'm not fully convinced. By no means is INQ balanced, and it needs to be toned down a bit. But it is actually the only universal tree that feels like it fully stands on its own.

Any class can play an inquisitive and contribute to the group in a meaningful way.

You can't say the same about Harper, Falconer, or Vistani as almost all of them require certain class combos to actually shine/work.

Edrein wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 7:47pm:


Should there be a universal tree that has more power than any prestige DPS tree?

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 10:18pm:

Sort of. It brought way more value to all barb, rogue, monk, and ranger melees, than it did for kensei or a pally.

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 10:18pm:


THF needs to apply helpless damage modifier to its glancing blows. That alone enables all THF melees to leverage their play-style's unique role, and will allow them to excel at it. This change doesn't push the boss dps up, so focused twf/swf/wolves will still have their role intact, while retaining their positions.

It keeps the balance of melee builds and increases the options, as then THF would have a clear established role that it shines at. Who knows, we may even get a super secret 7th place on the dps list staff build.   

Edrein wrote on Nov 27^th, 2019 at 2:47am:


Can't say I agree.

If we're talking about marketing point then why even bother? If it sells do it but eventually this trick is not going to work anymore. When you keep selling "stand alone" prestige class that can go anywhere and be perfectly viable where does that leaves the classes? What is the next step?

20 Harper/10 Falconry/50 Inquisitive builds?

Now, why should a Kensei be better at fighting with a dagger than a Vistani?

It shouldn't. but someone who specializes with knives is a fighter, sure as hell a sorcerer or a favored soul with inquisitive shouldn't even be close to the dps of a warrior who specialized with 20 fucking levels in a bow (talking about a ranger). You get where I'm coming from?

Universal prestige thingie started half right with harper agents providing stuff that is useful with many classes but inquisitive is a class in itself that can completely override some classes and make extremely OP some others. That is a huge difference and SSG is either too stupid to understand it or simply pretending.

If INQ breaks the game when combined with arti and rogue whose fault is it? The ones who made it or the players NOT using bugs and exploits and still trivializing R10 content?

Yeah, that's what I thought

Meursault wrote on Nov 27^th, 2019 at 8:17am:


They seem to be be considering nerfing crossbows; with an emphasis on that being somewhere between INQ and Mechanic.

Artorias wrote on Nov 27^th, 2019 at 5:42am:

You could also break it with a 18 fighter split. Or a ranger and bard mix. Or pull a symbiont and pop it onto a fvs splash and have raid solo capability...

acidpickachu wrote on Nov 27^th, 2019 at 2:33pm:


I think you misread that. I hate the fact that playing a vistani to a 'competitive' usage requires you to be a class that really supports using daggers. IE: Rogue or Bard for argument sake. That's not an 'universal' tree is it? It's just an extended Pre for an archtype.

Where as INQ is truly universal in the sense that it is class agnostic. Any class can play an INQ and do great with crossbows. Certain classes have advantages in the form of feat taxes, or in the case of Rogue/Arty they've got their own enhancement trees to boost them.

Back on the Vistani argument no class has feats given that boost daggers or make them more viable. Really the only Pre directly connected to daggers is Assassin and all it nets you is a stacking +1 crit bonus (which you could easily do similar with Barbarian for the sake of argument). Sure; swashbuckler, kensai, and even warpriest/soul have additional bonuses but no where near the same amount of influence/power that being a Mech/Arty have for INQ.

So the choice becomes: Keep the old system of Harper/Falconry where you're purely generic and have a bit of something for everyone. Or you try to be a bit more specific like Vistani and fail to properly provide unique build options/'power'. Or you go the new route of INQ and fully commit to a single thematic idea and make it so that anyone and everyone can pick up and use that tree solely or in conjunction with builds.

If I had to choose I'd rather see 1 or 3, but fuck the Vistani route because it does no one any favors. In retrospect I feel like Vistani is lackluster as it stands entirely to prevent Assassin DPS from leaping miles ahead of every other melee DPS build, which the devs ironically threw that caution to the wind a year and some change later with INQ and how busted it is with Mech/Arty.

Rubbinns wrote on Nov 26^th, 2019 at 1:06pm:


Everyone: Inquisitve OP! nerf Inquisitive! Nerf nerf nerf!!!

SSG: OK, we hear you, next update we nerf IPS.