Since Saltmarsh appeared in several threads lately I have the feeling that a trend is being built....

https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/ghosts-saltmarsh

I'll check when they release the update, but I'm going to make a Wild Assed Guess...

the quests will be like for Ravenloft, the exact copies of the quests from the PnP Adventure book.

Quest Names :
- The Haunted House
- The Sea Ghost  ( that one is on a ship )
- Danger at Dunwater ( lizarfolks )
- Salvage Operation ( another ship based quest )
- Isle of the Abbey ( with it's ruinned Cellar as a second part )
- The Final Enemy
- Tammeraut's Fate

and a few more... Actually it's not easy to guess how they are going to split things as they occurs in several locations not tied to each other. Maybe they will use Slatmarch as a jump point with an explorer area ( to reach some of the quests ) and quets givers that send you straight to the quests.

but anyway, there's what appaers to be a pattern here when it comes to DDO updates. ( especially when you see that all the books between Ravenloft and Saltmarsh that didn't get put into DDO quests were Sword Coast based so in the No Go area to keep NWO alive )

fuck, I should check more regularly the L-Space...

Since they forced the character copy in the officially shitty launcher I can't be arsed to do it.
( it's barely bearable to have to go through it once in a while when I'm playing from the work laptop while in vacation with my static group )


But it's interesting that my wild assed guess was not far. I'll take the book at work tomorrow and scan the plans for Danger at Dunwater and Final Enemy so that you can compare.

I don’t mind ddo shadowing PnP.   I don’t play PnP anymore so I wouldn’t be able to compare, but anything close to Ravenloft is a win in my opinion as that expansion is my favorite. 

On that note, is there a limit to what content they could use in this way?  Like would you have a problem if they did a DarkSun expansion with half-giant and mul races in a post apocalyptic setting?  I mean we already travel to dreams and different planes, why not I to the future?

Notanarc wrote on Jun 27^th, 2021 at 6:00pm:



Seeing how Ravenloft stuck to the PnP I think Wizards forced them to stick to the book, just the book and only the book.

Which is why Ravenloft was so good compared to the things they piss out normally.

And I think Saltmarsh was part of the renewal deal : you bring Saltmarsh ( and any non Sword Coast related book, lmike the brand new expansion on Ravenloft ) in game and we won't make it more expensive/difficult for you to pay for the license.

Shunned wrote on Jun 27^th, 2021 at 8:04pm:


Dude. Even publicly-traded companies don't publish their licensing agreements. Hasbro(who owns Wizards of the Coast) has been a publicly-traded company forever. Just because they have a stock-listing doesn't mean they make their private contracts public.

Flav wrote on Jun 27^th, 2021 at 6:44pm:



Exactly. It's a good thing though, except for temple of elemental evil where they fucked up the mob encounters beyond any expected way, all classic modules are quite good.


When SSG actually tries to make DDO look like dungeons and dragons, it's almost a good game 

Shunned wrote on Jun 28^th, 2021 at 10:44am:



You enter TOEE and you can easily kill over 1000 monsters/people in one run. Yes, it's that bad in terms of spawns. When it came out (and sometimes it still happens), simply getting in a fight aggroed so many enemies it caused insta red alert.

Bobbicus wrote on Jun 28^th, 2021 at 12:46pm:


You'd think a company that has a trademark on the word "Soon" would be no stranger to missed deadlines.

Technomage wrote on Jun 27^th, 2021 at 4:14pm:


Lets see if you recognize.

The first 3 should be the maps fromFinal Enemy and the last one is for Danger at Dunwater.

WotC can be a bitch to work with, especially if you want to amend or modify a deal.   The timing on the Key to Eveningstar still hasn't been changed because WotC doesn't want to revisit the contract for MOTU.

When WotC started releasing the 5th Edition adventures (the bound hardcover modules) there was an agreement, goal, or some sort of fucking plan, that both Neverwinter and DDO would be able to release those adventures as content in their games.   There was a cost assigned to them, but it was fairly reasonable.

This started in 2014 with the Tyranny of the Dragons story arc and in DDO we got the Mask of Deception.   Arguable Turdbin didn't have a whole lot of time or resources to make a competent module out of it.   Even with such low expectations Turdbin fell well short of the mark.
In 2015 we were supposed to get Out of the Abyss as kind of this mini-expansion to use today's terms.  Mask of Deception worked so well, that Turdbine bowed out of the agreement.   It is one of those how fucking stupid can everyone involved be moments.    You will under how stupid that decision was in the next paragraph.

Fast forward to 2016 and SSG was formed and one of the plans was to get back in on the agreement.   SSG was held over the barrel and with their panties around their ankles WOTC skipped the lube and took full advantage of the situation.
SSG can anytime they want go back over the barrel and for much the same price tag can do any of the Adventures released for 5E.   It is my understanding they are all considered slightly out of the price range of SSG/Daybreak.   We will see how EG7 wants to approach this.

The price tag on older content is a lot smaller than the newer 5e adventures.   The problem is that SSG stopped just short of totally developing that content due to cost and development costs/staffing.    Slavers is a good example, the quests are licensed but the landscape and the public zones weren't.    Thrown in a wilderness area and a public zone and Walla you have a worthy (or not) mini expansion.   While not likely to change anytime soon, see comment about barrel, panties and lack of lube.
Temple of Elemental Evil is a complete example of how poorly DDO was developed and run.  Makes you wonder how the game still fucking survives.    Halfway through development Turbine had a massive reorganization and half the staff was laid off.   New technology needed for the planned backend of these specific quests was 86ed, the developers working on the content were laid off and a young inexperienced staff member was assigned the daunting task of making the vision of the content work.   They took some wild stabs in the dark creating a Slayer like objective within the quests to make that vision work.  You guessed it, it fucking failed big time.   SSG would like to go back and rework the content, but that requires revisiting the license agreement and hoping that WOTC uses lube this time.   

At least SSG appears to have learned some lessons.   Saltmarsh has a Wilderness Adventure Area, I presume a Public Space, and a fair number of quests, 9.   We can argue about its relative value is or simply agree SSG is making it over priced.   I don't care.

There is content that it is unlikely that WotC will ever license under the current situation because because some fucker named Gary wanted to screw everyone he dealt with.   Things that WotC feels they own in their entirety with no claim by others is known or more importantly considered viable.  This includes Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms and a small handful of other older IPs like Pelinore that were developed in house at TSR.  Why you'd want to license Council of Wyrms, Birthright or Lankhmar is another story.   Jakandor is however one that I have felt DDO should license for a PvP setting.   
As far as I know a number of settings created externally at TSR (or later attributed to outside work) are not available for licensing.  These include Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Empire of the Petal Throne, Mystara, Rokugan and Warcraft.    Funny enough there was a point in time that Warcraft had an official licensed setting for D&D 3e. 
There are a few settings that we have not seen licensed, cough Planescape cough, so we don't know where they are or if someone has a claim.  Spelljammer is a fucking nightmare we are not going to jump into at the moment.

Turbine was crashing out employees left and right in that year before they cranked out pure shit before leaving and getting a decent content designer to reapply.

Do recall we lost half of the Haunted Halls named items specifically because the team responsible for the items left, and didn't leave a record of what they were.

noamineo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2021 at 7:12pm:


People still ask for it.  Which is why you have to do it on the cheap and separate it from the general population.   Beyond the Capture the Flag content.
   

noamineo wrote on Jun 28^th, 2021 at 7:12pm:

Spelljammer would be interesting, no doubt about it.   Dragon Rock (Rock of Bral), the Tears, Scull of the void and all the shit in Realmspace to start.   Too bad the one nice thing WotC has ever done for any of its smaller fan bases now is a fucking legal nightmare.

Bobbicus wrote on Jun 28^th, 2021 at 7:13pm:


There were only 3 original named magic items in the original module (Lantern Ring, Magestar, and Necklace of Mystic Eidolons.) The "dragon shield" was just a +1 shield with a picture of a dragon on it.

So whatever the devs conjured up ex nihilo was probably crap.

Flav wrote on Jun 29^th, 2021 at 5:01am:


Ed Greenwood wrote the Forgotten Realms. I'm pretty sure Salvatore's IP is limited to the characters of Drizzt and co.