on one hand there is epic, on the other hand there is casual.....

To clarify statement one: I think that more quest with different degrees of difficulty for each level helps game play more than creating casual mode. Epic is only accessible to lvl 20 so till then if you want that challenge your out of luck.

Doctorwhofan wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 12:11pm:


hmm... I was going to post something in these forums on this topic as well, since it wouldn't last long on the DDO forums.  My take is that we'll know by around May (2-3 updates) if the games is dead for serious players.  The main problem is most of your points is that they ALL require significant amounts of development time, and more importantly, creativity which you can't buy cheap. 

Epic difficulty is a no brainer, basically it only requires a basic understanding of the game coding and some modest understanding of the game play.  Cheap and relatively easy.  Unless they make more changes than, increased hitpoints, saves, and invunerablities, I doubt the interest in running epic will last more than 6 months.  Especially when a lot of the epic items aren't all that interesting.  I don't think there will be a change in how quests are converted to epic.

New graphic textures also a no brainer, no creativity required, no real skill required.  This will be done more in future updates

Improving game mechanics, or modifying game mechanics, GUI, playability.  also no creativity no real skill required.  this will also be done more in future updates.

making the game more soloable,  no brains, no skill, no creativity.  Already done, will continue in future updates.

More store development, sorry to repeat myself, but no brains needed here either.  lots more to come. 

New quests that are short, simple and derrivative.  This requires only a little brain power, even the inspired series 1 and 2 are mostly redressed versions of Kobald assault and the sunken sewer...  I believe we'll get some more of these and the higher level ones will have modestly interesting named items that will require repeated grinding of easy content for your cookie... 

New quests and raids that are interesting like Amrath....  Don't hold your breath.   That stuff was expensive to be sure.  Lots of dev time, graphics work, etc...  It would really rock the vets world, however, making "ice games" is obviously a lot easier.  there could be something really interesting in the works, I think the next few updates will tell the tale. 

I for one find the risia ice games insulting.  You can't even go fuck around on it without having to grind the fucking tokens... 

How's that for cynical... 

quickgrif wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 3:00pm:


The thing that bugged me was the lack of greater reincarnation in this update, when it was queried in the downtime announcement thread, Tarrant responded with the following:

Quote:


I mean, WTF? Way for Turbine to twist what we ask for, this isn't a dig at Tarrant mind you, he is just the messenger. We wanted more frequent updates yes, but to intentionally hold back stuff that said was in an update and then say 'Oh its in the update, just not right now' is just crap. If something is in 'Update 3 patch 3' or something, it's not in Update 3, that is just being misleading. Especially in this case where up until the day of release for Update 3, GR was coming in Update 3, they seem to have changed their mind in the last minute.

quickgrif wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 7:15am:

I don't understand why you think there should be quests of various difficulties. We have Casual, Normal, Hard and Elite for that. Adding quests of various difficulty levels means that the level on the quest is no longer an indication of difficulty. It just becomes needlessly confusing  ("Okay, so how difficult is that quest really?"). Not to mention, it's far more expensive.

As for adding quests from top to bottom, bit's called pre-Module 4 time and it was an horrible idea. Pretty much all quests that were added under the level cap never got played heavily. It's a waste of resources that could be better spent on high level quests. Rather, if Turbine wants us to play more content, an XP rebalancing and revisiting refurbishing unpopular quests to fix the unpopular elements is the way to go.

Completely agree on your two other points, though.

Quote:

I have the feeling they uploaded the wrong build.

Demoyn wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 3:59pm:

Like I know what the hell they are thinking...

Quote:


As far as I am aware GR is finished and tested waiting for release, they are just holding it off so they can say "Hey look, we did release something new this month!" It was a marketing decision.

I agree too borr, some of the bugs on live were fixed in the latest llamamania update, seems like the wrong build got through.

quickgrif wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 4:22pm:

Varying in time to complete makes sense. It's another completely variable, but level of the quest is supposed to indicate the difficulty of the quest. What else do you think it even should represent? If you're badass, you'll pick Elite; if you're a n00b you'll pick Casual but, regardless, the quest level should be an indicator of whether you're ready to tackle the quest or not.

Otherwise, it's just an useless variable.

It would be unreasonable to expect all quests of a certain level to be of the exact same difficulty but you're asking to make them purposely harder or easier than others. That's just nonsensical and a waste of resources.

Borror0 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 3:51pm:


Now that is hilarious!  If that was the case, today's patch should fix a lot of things...  now I'm curious...

Borror0 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2010 at 3:51pm:


I was wondering that myself. The build date on the release was, I think, Jan 25th. There were discussions on the Lam threads about problems after that date.

My 2cp...

Turbine can have a pass on this update.  The last three have been fairly smooth, and while this one is buggy, at least we're able to log in and play.  3 outta 4 ain't bad.

As far as focus, I think they're doing better than they have in the past, but they still have a long way to go.  While I'm sure some will disagree with me, I consider the combination of casual mode and dungeon scaling to be a prime example of an area where their focus has been lost.  When DS came out, my biggest complaint was that they took away the feeling of accomplishment one receives when they solo a six-party dungeon on normal or hard.  The overall purpose of DS was to make the dungeons more accessible to solo play - a goal that casual mode can achieve.

If you can accomplish a goal and end up with the following situations, which would you choose as the most desirable outcome?

• Group A is happy, Group B is unhappy
• Group A is unhappy, Group B is happy
• Both groups are unhappy
• Both groups are happy

Obviously, you'd want the fourth option.  Had they introduced casual mode instead of DS, that's the outcome they could have achieved.  Instead, we're left with the first outcome... those who wanted easier dungeons have them, while those who enjoyed normal and hard as they were have had that option stripped from them.

i have no problems with casual content. i have no problems with elite/content. i have no problems with dungeon scaling.

i do have a problem when all three converge, ie a player who does things on casual/normal, get into a raid. people who have never done things at stressful settings (elite/hard) face a huge task in upping their game to the necessary level in order not to drag the party

to quote an example, my guild did an elite hound. most were guildies and several players who have done it on elite. in came a noob (from guardios). nothing goes wrong for the 1st 2 stones. then he decided to pick up stone 3 and 4, started killing dogs, drag renders into the centre. not a griefer as when i booted him from the party and did it on normal, he keep hitting the lfm even when i decline him each time

in the past, players like this will never make it into a raid, with each dumbing down of the game. you see more and more of them, especially in raids where no flagging is required ie vod, hound