Honestly, I'd say it depends on the group.  If more than half of the group are decent to good players then H (collapse) if more than half of them are random puggers I'd say O (patrol).  Run around the outside can at times be a difficult instruction to follow and we all know how derpy random Sarlona puggers can be.

Beerman made me a believer in the collapse method.  If we can complete on hard, shortmanned, at 2 in the morning, drunk off our asses, then it's as close as you're getting to foolproof.  Only question remaining for it then is 2x2 or 3x1...

I pretty much only run this with the Drunken Raids group and we do collapse method.  If a bunch of drunk people can pull it off without a hitch 9 times out of 10, then I think it's fair to say it's a pretty reliable method to use.  You only get 3 reavers that come into the middle and usually we can get her killed before the beholders show up.  We post people at each of the entrances to tab for beholders to take them out as soon as they show up and it's a pretty smooth complete most of the time. 

Nearly every time I see a group do the hunting party method, someone gets too much aggro and runs to the middle for help/heals and fucks it all up.  That being said though, I don't do guild raids, I do PUG raids, so that may be the difference.  If you have a solid guild group that knows their stuff and can handle the aggro, etc., then hunting party is great. 

My vote is for collapse though, it's pretty reliable no matter what your group make up is.

Collapsing is superior, but PUGs are incapable of following so advanced a strategy - hence "O method"/patrol in PUGs on Sarlona.

Mostly a self perpetuating problem though, PUGs can only succeed at patrol because that's all they're used to. If every group ever collapsed they'd learn fine.

We do a patrol after the inital stones are picked up. It keeps renders out of the middle keeps their numbers down. It also helps everyone stay more involved. It's much easier to get people to go to SW when they are already on patrol heading that way.

also, we do it Elite with the 3x1 method. I haven't seen a fail yet, and that includes runs where we get Big Beholders in the center.

I prefer to designate a hunting party to get stones if need be with collapse.  You should get a good feel for those players who are more self sufficient on the way to the raid.  The key is knowing you'll need more stones ahead of time so the chew toy can get ready with a fresh SF to maintain aggro.

Only a divine, arcane(if we bring), bard in the middle. Edit..forgot the chew toy.

2 runners making a loop on opposite sides, want one crossing the north side when the other is crossing the south side, someone fast and or can self heal fairly well, while groups are posted on the east and west entrances but not in the entrance itself.  Healer can stand in the entrance area for each kill group.  Helps if the kill groups have really good AC and don't get touched or self sufficient, but we have brought 3 divines if we decide to pug out the rest.  Runners kite to the groups to kill.  We are ready when beholders are going to pop and gank them right away and go back to killing trash.

It does help that the kill groups will bring some of the trash that is near the corners and not wait for the runner.  Basically, one person in each kill group runs only the hall their group is in.  This will grab some of the stuff on the north and south halls that are just around the corner.

If we need stones, we have people out there already and the trash numbers are kept in check.  A fast runner picks up whatever number of stones we need and uses them then goes back to their kill group.

But we know when something is going to spawn.  Runners may have to occasionally stop with group and help kill and it helps to have a brain to figure this out.

We can bring a few pugs but it usually isn't too many.

This isn't something that we raid regularly.  Most don't really find it as fun, mostly because of the run and the raid is so short that it is kind of anti-climatic. 

Inkblack wrote on Jun 4^th, 2012 at 1:06am:


Again, yes, if you can get everyone in the group to actually collapse. Sarlona PUG? You're lucky if you have fewer than six running around the outside after they were supposed to collapse.

I ran several elites with Sabotage where there were few to no bad PUGs, everyone collapsed, and it finished like clockwork every time without even a minor bump.

Success in HOX is a combination of:
- non-critical people not fucking things up for the critical people
- fast stone-grabbers
- charmer with Augment Summon who knows what they're doing (3/1, not fucking up Rod's wand if they're using it)
- bard/buffers who know what they're doing
- tank who knows what they're doing
- healers who know what they're doing

Any two of those lacking and you're in for a rough ride at minimum, three and it's a wipe.

Zigana wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2012 at 8:54pm:



the 1 time is when Beerman forgets to turn off auto attack while tanking.

On elite, self-sufficient hunting teams, no need to sit in the middle and maybe unluckily have a baby beholder zap the puppies. This might not work in a largely pug run with strangers that might not follow directions.

Collapse and scream at any idiots who bring junk to the centre. I only PUG Hound on Hard, basically.

What's people's opinions on 2 and 2 vs 3 and 1?

I tend to tell my groups to keep wandering round the outside. Several reasons for this.

1. I like saying "round the outside"

2. we are usually too drunk to try to give any more direction than to run in circles and kill shit

3. they kill more shit and I get more an planar shards. woohoo.

4. we usually screw something up and need more charming stones, so might as well just plan on it and get them ahead of time. Not that I'm saying Lazytigerlily likes to try to charm momma dog when she has had a few bottles of wine.

5. people get bored if they collapse and then they start casting grease, dispel magic, purple ball globes. and then they blame it on me. it so was not me!