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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Epic Level & Iconic TR (Read 78004 times)
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #125 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 6:34pm
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I was going to toss these suggestions out on the other forum.  You guys got any feedback?

1. Separate Heroic and Epic Destiny TR paths.
a) Keep Heroic TRing as it is right now.
b) An EDTR only sets you back to level 20.  You become a 38 point build but your class split remains the same.  Your E.D. XP is reset.  But, it follows some additional rules.  (See Below)

2. Every time a player does an Epic Destiny TR they get to bind 1 destiny plus an additional destiny for each sphere that they have capped out and has an open destiny.

2. Each E.D. past life feat grants an additional fate point.  (This is to limit power creep)

3. When a character gets all the E.D. past life feats it unlocks a 0/1/2/3 bonus Twist of Fate slot.

4. Epic Advantage only grants ranks to a TR for bound destiny ranks.  But, it applies to Heroic TRs as well.
  

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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #126 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 8:18pm
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ROFL...double bonus point sale is on! Think they're off by a week on that one. Smiley
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #127 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 8:27pm
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Flav wrote on Jun 13th, 2013 at 1:50pm:
Now the L33T PoWahGamorZ are looking at their XPs and all their destinies and they see something that will have to be trashed if they want to have the new shinies ( 38 Points ) that will give them an edge over the unwashed mass, so they whine.

You should stick a hot croissant up your ass and go suck a big Moroccan cock instead of talking about the game.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #128 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 11:08pm
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Yea, so not something that will bring me back to this game.

So, we use the excuse of not being able to fix lag and memory leaks to go to double strike bs that has never worked right since implementation, and didn't do anything for lag because you are doing the same number of calculations. And of course it isn't DnD rule set.

Then the excuse that immunities are making dungeon/raid design too difficult, so we take away iconic class and race abilities, but do nothing to dungeon/raid design to use the new parameters, except to get further away from the DnD rule set and another set of calculation to increase lag instead of just having a null value.

Then we have no way to have progress to gain best items in game. Over 1k runs of VoN6 and still no seal or shard and have never even seen one in the chest? Too bad. Over 200 hundred runs of Graveyard to try and get a set of handwraps and not even one pair drops for anyone in the group, even though they are all guild runs with the express purpose of getting me a pair. Too bad. I have countless other examples that show that the way loot is done in this game is borked, unless you exploit early and often.

Now, to entice someone who left the game due to:
lag,
inability to make progress for high end loot,
ignoring iconic DnD rules and turning this into generic fantasy MMO,
general overall massive grind for minimal return, guild reknown and decay garbage,
various repeating or not fixed bugs that have been around forever,
a completely mind numbing and worthless grind masquerading as crafting that gets you nothing better that can't be looted,
continuous invalidation of previous high end loot,
still no visible cloaks, different boots and still only a couple of visible goggles,
keep adding more and more collectibles to keep sales of bank space and bags going;

now you want to introduce a new mechanic that nullifies what little grinding in epics that I could stomach, after an expansion with no raid that really has nothing else appealing to it at all.

I don't get it. I loved this game and really enjoyed playing it and made some friends and played steadily from prelaunch till Oct of '12. I guess you guys don't care about integrity as long as people just keep dropping cash to get around the obvious grind and lack of actual quality content and keep buying useless pets and cosmetic items, but still can't address a single item on the list above.

I guess it isn't your fault. As long as people keep giving you money for the new shinies, that is what you will provide, but even WotC has recognized their mistakes and is returning to the basics.

I respect you MM, and I know that you don't have control of a lot of things, but I also know that if you guys fixed the things on my list and got back the basics of good dungeon design and writing and the DnD rule set, this game would be a real competitor in the MMO world.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #129 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 11:15pm
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Flav wrote on Jun 13th, 2013 at 1:50pm:
Now the L33T PoWahGamorZ are looking at their XPs and all their destinies and they see something that will have to be trashed if they want to have the new shinies ( 38 Points ) that will give them an edge over the unwashed mass, so they whine.

Whiny bitch laughing cause the 'L33T PoWahGamorZ' are finally getting what's coming to them... I hope you drown yourself when you finish self-fellating you stupid cunt.
  

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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #130 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:54am
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Some more info/clarification on twitter.

https://twitter.com/producerglin/status/345396514664878080
  

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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #131 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:59am
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Munkenmo wrote on Jun 13th, 2013 at 6:38am:
I think he means he told us we'd get to know early enough to shoot ideas like this from orbit.


Fair enough. From Glin's post it does look like this was posted before development on the system was started, so that's pretty huge.

Let's hope the follow-through on listening to the playerbase is there, too.
« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2013 at 2:01am by Dhalgren »  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #132 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 2:05am
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Fawngate is a fucking crazy person.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #133 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 5:54am
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How about this.

Forget all about Epic Advantage, it doesn't exist.

Heroic  TR's = Same as on live now.
Iconic TR's = Treat like heroic TR's but cannot TR until level 25+

Epic TR's = Start at level 1 (with TR 1 leveling requirements). You sacrifice & bond the ED you want gain the past life from, and you cannot use / twist unbonded ED's again until you reach level 28
« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2013 at 5:55am by Munkenmo »  

So you want to know about an exploit?
PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #134 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 8:17am
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Dhalgren wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:59am:
From Glin's post it does look like this was posted before development on the system was started, so that's pretty huge.


They haven't started development yet and are looking to put out the TR changes in update 20 this year...? All the while preparing to deal with the massive trainfuck clusterwreck that is going to be the enhancements system coming with the expansion before hand?

I'd hide my head in the sand... if I could squeeze it out my ass.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #135 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 8:36am
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Selee wrote on Jun 13th, 2013 at 11:15pm:
Whiny bitch laughing cause the 'L33T PoWahGamorZ' are finally getting what's coming to them... I hope you drown yourself when you finish self-fellating you stupid cunt.


Reading comprehension is your friend.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #136 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:09pm
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@ MajMalph:

I'm not going to comment on the details, as my comments would mostly mirror what's already been said. What i would like to say is this:

1st, I very much appreciate how quickly our request for more communication, early communication, on proposed changes was taken to heart and acted on. This is exactly the kind of thing we need more of. If there's any doubt about that, compare the ghost town that was the forums a week ago to what they are now. All the lurkers have come out of the woodwork, logged in, and made their opinions known. That alone, ignoring the details of those opinions even, ought to be a clear message that there is still a substantial community of players who care about what you're doing. Please please keep it going.

Next, the criticism. What this last bombshell lacks is context. You see, we do want early communication, but Glin skipped a crucial step. How can we comment constructively, especially to scary, wide effect changes in game mechanics if we don't know WHY these changes are happening? That is to say, each and every detail of the proposed plan was discussed, hashed, rehashed, planned, and decided on in some form of internal meeting/discussion/brainstorming session. And those decisions were made based on long and short term goals you guys have for the game as a whole. Right? But if we the players don't know what those goals are, we can't possible have a constructive, contextual perspective about how and if the changes meet those goals. OR even if the goals are valid in the first place.
What was needed was for Glin to start the discussion something like this:

We the devs/producers feel that there are some issues/problems with DDO's engame, power creep, TR cycle, and Grind  (( for example )). Here is what we think those problems are:
((a short paragraph describing the perceived issues in each of those areas))

Now, we THINK we have come up with some interesting ways to address those  issues, and it will mean some drastic and some not so drastic changes to a couple of key mechanics. But before we get into those, we'd like to hear your opinion regarding the issues we discussed above. So here's a brief questionnaire to get the discussion flowing:

1) How much of your gaming time is spent at end game, and what do you feel is the problem with current end game playstyle?

2 et al ) a few more questions measuring the players' attitude towards the issues you're working on.

Ok, so we're going to take a couple days to digest your feedback, and get back to you with what we're planning.

**************

A few days later

**************

So, we've looked at your feedback and folded it in to our own thoughts, and here's what we've come up with:

1) End game, Grind, and Power Creep: Here's what it boils down to, and here's what we're going to do about it. This change will hurt quite a bit at first, but it seems that it will be the healthiest in the long term. To offset the damage in the short term, here's what we'll do.

2) next issue, next solution, with reasoning, expected fallout, hoped for long term results

3) and so on.
**************************

So, I've been pretty long winded I know, but I hope you see what I'm getting at. Your early communication regarding TR/ETR/ITR is appreciated, but it really needs that context in order to have any hope of being constructive. Otherwise you're just asking for backlash and doom.

I hope you agree and I hope you're able to pass it on and do something about it.

p.s. having the devs wait another week before returning to thread may not be the greatest plan. the hotheads will get hotter, the already out-of-hand speculation and misinformation will just get worse, the knee-jerkers will start having outright seizures. I'd suggest at least a token drop in today to say, We're hearing you, especially on the issues of Fate Points, Keys, Tomes, Heroic TR, and lost ed xp. Please don't lose heart, it's early yet, and we'll definitely be coming back for more discussion next week. Keep the input coming, and please keep it civil.... You know, something like that to help keep the pot from boiling over.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #137 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:21pm
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From Piloto:

Quote:
1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP.  In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats.  Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play.
« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:21pm by Darkrok »  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #138 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:22pm
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So they've come out and said it. We screwed up. We created a system that's broken and discourages epic level play. So to fix it we're going to penalize our players.

Turbine: Powered by our Players (tears)
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #139 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:33pm
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Darkrok wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:21pm:
From Piloto:



Link?
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #140 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:37pm
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@ maj:

Wow, so my p.s. to you was done exactly while i was typing it. cool.

@ Aheras: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/418543-Epic-Level-amp-Iconic-TR?p=5022...
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #141 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:37pm
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #142 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:45pm
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Quote:
From Pilot: Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play.

Wiping out ED xp provides an even stronger incentive to to avoid epic play after hitting level 20.

I really wish Turbine would hire a good economist instead of rejects from Zynga, along with someone who has real, practical knowledge and skills on what motivates people.
  

Memnir wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:59am:
Note to any Turbine staffers reading this, and one I genuinely hope you share around the office: DDO has become a shit game because y'all have made it a shit game. Once it was great. Now, it's a festering puddle of monkey diarrhea. No matter how you try to justify it, or pat yourselves on the back for doing great jobs... it's a shit game now because of you. Y'all keep on giving the players the middle finger, and you keep expecting us to reward you for the abuse. I've had it with you narcissistic fuckwads and your myopic policies of ineptitude.
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #143 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:52pm
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Kimberlite wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:45pm:
Wiping out ED xp provides an even stronger incentive to to avoid epic play after hitting level 20.

I really wish Turbine would hire a good economist instead of rejects from Zynga, along with someone who has real, practical knowledge and skills on what motivates people.


Why do that when they have Feather of Sun...he's really good at his job!
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #144 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:52pm
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rofl....

Are they real ? serisouly, MajMal, take Piloto to an internet café, download DDO, create a F2P game account and play with Piloto a few hours...

He needs a reality check without GodMode on.

The proposed changes, along with the NGE... erm Enhancement Crash are going to kill the game.

Or is it what you want to do ? so that you can all concentrate on LoTRO.
( as it's THE GAME WB bought Turbine for )
  

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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #145 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:52pm
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Darkrok wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:21pm:
From Piloto:



That's completely opposite of how the whole fucking system was designed to operate when EDs were first put into the game. Jesus Tapdancing Harold Christ. They even had a fix in place for people who mistakenly lost their epic destinies when they TRd!

I can't understand what the fuck they're thinking here. I really can't.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #146 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:57pm
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Darkrok wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:37pm:


I would reply, but the forums don't even show a way to login anymore. I tried to reply with a quote  and it goes to a 500 error page.

It does have some nice help:
Trouble Logging in? Remember: your community login is the same as your game login!

Tried Firefox AND IE.  Maybe I should put in a ticket. Oh wait, that doesn't work either:
We are experiencing technical difficulties. Please try again later.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #147 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:00pm
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rest wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:52pm:
I can't understand what the fuck they're thinking here. I really can't.


@ Maj: This is what I'm talking about right here. If we understood what y'all were thinking, if we were explained how the proposed change actually addresses the perceived issues, we'd be less inclined to bash the devs. We might have some different, maybe even better, ideas on how to fix the issue without breaking existing stuff... Hindsight may be 20/20, but honestly if we'd had a better idea of what the direction of the game was going to be way back when the ED system was first being thought about, we may have been able to head this disaster off before it even became an issue.

Ok, I'm beating a dead horse now... sorry. Just please realize how important it is to involve your customers in your planning stages.
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #148 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:04pm
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and yeah, the forum seems to be taking a dump at the moment. timeouts, 500's, and even a chrome sad face when trying to load or login. Either traffic is spiking or something is melting... will try back later i guess. Smiley
  
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Re: Epic Level & Iconic TR
Reply #149 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:06pm
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rest wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:52pm:
I can't understand what the fuck they're thinking here. I really can't.

Ah, grasshopper. You have made an assumption. What makes you believe that there was any thinking going on in Needham?

I loved this from Piloto:
Quote:
2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.

DDO character information is certain to be stored in a database. Most of the people on the Vault have used databases before, and we all have a pretty good idea of what can be done with them, provided someone competent is doing the coding.

The only uncertainty is whether your Zynga-refugee  executives in charge of fleecing and monetization will let you do do something that benefits players without requiring us to spend money in the store.
  

Memnir wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:59am:
Note to any Turbine staffers reading this, and one I genuinely hope you share around the office: DDO has become a shit game because y'all have made it a shit game. Once it was great. Now, it's a festering puddle of monkey diarrhea. No matter how you try to justify it, or pat yourselves on the back for doing great jobs... it's a shit game now because of you. Y'all keep on giving the players the middle finger, and you keep expecting us to reward you for the abuse. I've had it with you narcissistic fuckwads and your myopic policies of ineptitude.
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