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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz (Read 38632 times)
Meat-Head
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Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Aug 25th, 2013 at 12:04pm
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I have a semi-gimp 25 sorc (1 PL wizzy), and I'm wondering what to do with him.

Was thinking of jumping on the shiradi bandwagon.

I don't care to TR him again. I just want an EE viable caster. (screw DCs).


So, I'll use my 20 heart to make him something decent.

My leaning is an 18/2  Wiz/Monk(or rogue)  My thinking was that shiradi is all about those 7% procs and no one can spam MMs like an Evo AM.   Right?


Which is best  sorc or wiz for Shiradi?


Other thoughts?
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2013 at 12:06pm by Meat-Head »  

A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule.

Disavowed wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration.

Artorias wrote on Feb 10th, 2016 at 2:15pm:
Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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cdr
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #1 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 1:34pm
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I love shiradi wiz, and universal spellpower is definitely higher with wiz. However, sorcs got a couple of buffs while on lama and are I'm sure are a fine choice now for shiradi.

Sorc/pal: 1K more mana, 15+ higher fort/will 5+ higher reflex, knockdown immune and wings (definitely go air)
Wiz/mnk: evasion, higher universal spellpower, more feats and spells

If I was making a sorc now I'd definitely think about splashing 1wiz for MM SLA.

May edit in more later.
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2013 at 2:28pm by cdr »  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #2 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 6:24pm
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Warforged 12 Sorc/6 Wizard/2 Monk or 2 FvS.

12 Sorc: Electric (wings+knockdown immunity)
6 Wiz: Magic Missile and Chain Missile SLAs

One of the following:
2 Monk: 2 feats/Evasion
2 FvS: 10 temp SP on a crit is really damned good.
  
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Meat-Head
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #3 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 7:12pm
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Carpone wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 6:24pm:
Warforged 12 Sorc/6 Wizard/2 Monk or 2 FvS.

12 Sorc: Electric (wings+knockdown immunity)
6 Wiz: Magic Missile and Chain Missile SLAs

One of the following:
2 Monk: 2 feats/Evasion
2 FvS: 10 temp SP on a crit is really damned good.



Nice.

What do you think about grabbing the monk stance feats for grandmaster for dodge/saves? Might as well care about mitigation/avoidance.


On another note, it's mildly sad that you can get away with not giving a deuce about Spell pen and DCs and still be awesome. Too bad turbine can't see that.
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2013 at 7:13pm by Meat-Head »  

A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule.

Disavowed wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration.

Artorias wrote on Feb 10th, 2016 at 2:15pm:
Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #4 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 7:23pm
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Carpone wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 6:24pm:
Warforged 12 Sorc/6 Wizard/2 Monk or 2 FvS.

12 Sorc: Electric (wings+knockdown immunity)
6 Wiz: Magic Missile and Chain Missile SLAs

One of the following:
2 Monk: 2 feats/Evasion
2 FvS: 10 temp SP on a crit is really damned good.


Do not do this.  Jesus christ, how you can you possibly think this is a good idea.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #5 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 7:27pm
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My write up from DDO forums:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423364-U19-shiradi-WF-sorc-build-prime...

Quote:
I had several people ask me how to remake their shiradi sorc for U19. While I haven't fleshed out all the gear, it's already more than clear that shiradi sorc is better than ever, even at level 25. I figure I'd start this thread to get the discussion rolling already.

There are basically three possible level splits:

18 sorc/2 paladin
18 sorc/2 monk
18 sorc/2 FvS

18 sorc is absolutely required for wings and meteor swarm. If you're thinking about splashing more, you're probably better off with a different class. Paladin and monk splashes are defensive splashes, with the edge going to paladin in my opinion. FvS is the offensive splash, and ultimately better if you usually play in groups.

Enhancements - paladin version
Warforged (2 AP):
Core: Tier 1 (1 AP)
Tier 1: Inscribed armor (1 AP)

Air Savant (40 AP):
Core: Tier 5 (5 AP)
Tier 1: Electrocution (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 2: Efficient Maximize (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 3: Efficient Empower (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), Charisma (2 AP)
Tier 4: Feather Falling (2 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 5: Wind Dance (2 AP), Awaken Elemental Weakness (2 AP), Evocation Focus (2 AP), Elemental Diversification: Force (2 AP)

Fire Savant (34 AP):
Core: Tier 5 (5 AP)
Tier 1: Conflagration (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), One with the inferno (3 AP)
Tier 2: Efficient Quicken (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), Fanning the Flames (3 AP), Pierce Fire Resistance (6 AP)
Tier 3: Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 4: Spell Critical (2 AP)

4 AP free - level off charisma score, try to put points into fire instead of air as fire is the DPS savant.

Enhancements are generally geared towards maximum DPS and SP efficiency. The obvious savant choices are air and fire due to superior procs. Water and earth are just flat out bad, and I can't imagine anyone seriously considering them over air and fire. This is a big change over pre-expansion, when all savants were basically competitive. Now, you really only have one choice.

Fanning the flames is better than it appears, since it can proc on each damage number in scorching ray and meteor swarm.

Another one of the big changes from pre-expansion is being able to not take SLAs. This is great, since all tier 1 and probably all tier 2 SLAs are basically never worth using for a shiradi, so you can save a ton of AP to put them somewhere else. On the other hand, draconic's will probably rely on them quite heavily.

Enhancements - FvS version
Warforged (2 AP):
Core: Tier 1 (1 AP)
Tier 1: Inscribed armor (1 AP)

Angel of Vengeance (17 AP)
Core: Tier 1 (1 AP)
Tier 1: Scourge (3 AP), Smiting (2 AP)
Tier 2: Just Rewards (3 AP), Smiting (2 AP), Efficient Quicken (6 AP)

Air Savant (40 AP):
Core: Tier 5 (5 AP)
Tier 1: Electrocution (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 2: Efficient Maximize (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 3: Efficient Empower (6 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), Charisma (2 AP)
Tier 4: Feather Falling (2 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP)
Tier 5: Wind Dance (2 AP), Awaken Elemental Weakness (2 AP), Evocation Focus (2 AP), Elemental Diversification: Force (2 AP)

Fire Savant (21 AP):
Core: Tier 4 (4 AP)
Tier 1: Conflagration (3 AP), Spell Critical (2 AP), One with the inferno (2 AP)
Tier 2: Spell Critical (2 AP), Pierce Fire Resistance (4 AP)
Tier 3: Spell Critical (2 AP), Charisma (2 AP)

With FvS splash, the goal is to move as much enhancements as possible to Angel of Vengeance, since you get more spellpower per point and honestly the enhancements are just flat out better. You're getting a ton more spellpower thanks to scourge and some extra force crits that you wouldn't have otherwise. With Just Rewards, you're adding a good amount of spell points so you can easily drop fanning the flames too.

Offensive casting:

Single Target:
Magic Missile
Scorching Ray (Force Missiles vs. fire immunes)
Meteor Swarm
Lightning bolt (bosses only)
DoTs

AoE:
Meteor Swarm
Chain Missiles
Energy Burst
Primal Scream
Chain Lightning (optional)

Utility:
Ice Storm
Solid Fog

Generally speaking, you'll be using a combination of single target and AoE for 99% of skirmishes, so it's not essential to have a full rotation of AoE spells. (By full rotation, I mean being able to chain spells indefinitely.) On the other hand, all boss fights require sustained single target DPS, so it's essential to have a full rotation with no downtime. Luckily, you can rotate between MM and Scorching Ray alone. Meteor Swarm is also the best single target DPS spell, however it's costly, so use sparingly as single target DPS.

Lightning bolt should be used only vs bosses. Trash mobs don't survive long enough for conduction to add significant DPS.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #6 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 8:07pm
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AtomicMew wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 7:23pm:
Do not do this.  Jesus christ, how you can you possibly think this is a good idea. 

Care to have a conversation about it instead of freaking the fuck out?
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #7 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 8:20pm
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Carpone wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 8:07pm:
Care to have a conversation about it instead of freaking the fuck out?

Freaking out is what the vault does best!

Wings, knockdown immunity and meteor swarm. Does any more really need to be said?
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #8 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 8:52pm
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I have a writeup of my wiz in progress, I'll post it on the main forums once I figure out everything.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #9 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 9:15pm
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AtomicMew wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 8:20pm:
Freaking out is what the vault does best!

Wings, knockdown immunity and meteor swarm. Does any more really need to be said? 

You list Primal Scream as an AE strategy and want people to take you seriously? LOL.

The 12/6/2 split works, as does Human 13 FvS/7 Sorc.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #10 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 10:25pm
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Carpone wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 9:15pm:
You list Primal Scream as an AE strategy and want people to take you seriously? LOL.

The 12/6/2 split works, as does Human 13 FvS/7 Sorc.


Have you tried primal scream on a air savant with full spellpower?  No you haven't.  It's as much damage as energy burst on a save (which means it's often better than energy burst against evasion). 

You say we should have a discussion then jump straight to ad hom.  Brilliant, trololol. 

12/6/2 and 13/7 work, but so do lots of builds, including 14 druid/6 arti.  There's no way it's more effective than a real arcane with meteor swarm and wings though.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #11 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 1:48am
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It's simple, take Skill focus: Swim and fit Aquatic bracer in your gear set. There you go. you're ready to pwn some asses.

P.S : I'd go with wiz/monk. Evasion is yummy
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #12 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 2:49am
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AtomicMew wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 10:25pm:
... real arcane ... 


Burn the splasher! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!

Btw, both builds Carpone mentioned have wings.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #13 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:06am
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Why is meteor swarm so awesome? That might be a dumb question, but dumb has never stopped me before.

Cause it's 8 dmg numbers for procs plus decent damage itself? But, as you said earlier, it's expensive to cast, yes? Explain moar plox. I'm arcane dumb.
« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:08am by Meat-Head »  

A half-dozen boss Vaulties donated generously with real money to my classroom during a fundraiser in May 2015 to get poor kids books to read. I won't forget that. They know who they are, and they freaking rule.

Disavowed wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
Once you meat your personal goal you might want to give that some consideration.

Artorias wrote on Feb 10th, 2016 at 2:15pm:
Good grief Meat, you're hopeless. You would label the simple act of taking a shit as someone obeying the divine law of nature to leave a proof of existence.
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #14 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:51am
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Carpone wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 6:24pm:
Warforged 12 Sorc/6 Wizard/2 Monk or 2 FvS.

12 Sorc: Electric (wings+knockdown immunity)
6 Wiz: Magic Missile and Chain Missile SLAs

One of the following:
2 Monk: 2 feats/Evasion
2 FvS: 10 temp SP on a crit is really damned good.


Sounds like some serious MAD syndrome.  How'd you do the starting stats?
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #15 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 4:14am
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Meat-Head wrote on Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:06am:
Why is meteor swarm so awesome? That might be a dumb question, but dumb has never stopped me before.

Cause it's 8 dmg numbers for procs plus decent damage itself? But, as you said earlier, it's expensive to cast, yes? Explain moar plox. I'm arcane dumb.


shiradi is all about procs per cast.

shouldn't be hard to figure out why a spell that hits multiple targets multiple times per cast is good for a shiradi.
  

So you want to know about an exploit?
PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #16 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 5:05am
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Meteor swarm is great when you can dump mana (40 sp is dumping mana on a shiradi). It's very nice, but I wouldn't consider it critical.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #17 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 5:09am
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Limpgimp wrote on Aug 26th, 2013 at 2:49am:
Btw, both builds Carpone mentioned have wings.

You're giving up either immolation or arcane supremacy.  If that's what you're going to do, what's the point.  Just go 18/2 and have better DPS.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #18 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 9:29am
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I've been playing 13 fvs/ 7 wiz - its retarded. Never run out of spell points ever. Every EE new quest, not even sweating*. I even did it on the wrong race (wf lolz!) as the plan was originally to TR once I tested the set up but fuck it, its cake.

*First run of EE "what goes up", completion but some sweating during final fight first time learning curve.

Edit - I have thought about taking a lvl of druid to have beguile to go along with all the other bazillion procs from non stop nuking sexiness.
« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2013 at 9:30am by Cripey »  

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Hordo wrote on Nov 21st, 2012 at 8:07am:
EDIT: BTW I love your post.  It reads as if English is your 3rd language behind gibberish and dipshit.


majmalphunktion wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 6:11pm:
what the fuck guys...

Jeesus fucking shit. This shit gets me called to the principals office.

Assholes.
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 10:28am
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meteor storm is like casting chain missiles except its like 500% more sp and has an inferior AoE. sounds cool maybe ill try it some day while fighting the 4 enemies in ddo who have nightshield
  

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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 11:27am
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AtomicMew wrote on Aug 26th, 2013 at 5:09am:
You're giving up either immolation or arcane supremacy.  If that's what you're going to do, what's the point.  Just go 18/2 and have better DPS. 



6 wiz gains:
2 slas (MM and CM) -additional damage at very low sp cost
8% crit to force and elemental - nice synergy with /2 fvs split and more damage for missiles
1 USP gain for point invested - a bit more spellpower for missiles
2 feats - always nice to have

Losses, compared to 18 sorc:
knockdown immunity - nice to have indeed
immolation - free dps, could be fitted in theory on wiz splash too (e.g. giving up t4 crit for it)
-1 level for reconstruct - hardly game breaking
meteor swarm - extra burst damage, but highly inefficient dmg/sp
otto irresistible - cc at will, but single taget, short range and duration
some electric/fire spellpower - slightly better energy burst
some spell points - at least partially compensated by int bonus to sp, 90 sp from enhancements and 2 sp per point invested in AM


Unless I'm missing something really important, it seems like a fair trade to me, but to each his own.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #21 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:10pm
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It is a pretty fair trade...and mostly a flavor choice I think.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #22 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:46pm
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Losing Otto's is actually pretty huge for EE IMO - it's the single best mob disabler in group play, and it's an awesome panic button in more cautious solo play. Meteor Swarm doesn't do anything unique, but Otto's is irreplaceable.
  
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #23 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 4:12pm
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cdr wrote on Aug 26th, 2013 at 3:46pm:
Losing Otto's is actually pretty huge for EE IMO - it's the single best mob disabler in group play, and it's an awesome panic button in more cautious solo play. Meteor Swarm doesn't do anything unique, but Otto's is irreplaceable.


I can see the argument for ottos, not my play preference, but makes more sense than building for meteor swarm.
  

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Or as they say in Ireland -
Derp derp derp derp. Yellow moons. Lassie.

Hordo wrote on Nov 21st, 2012 at 8:07am:
EDIT: BTW I love your post.  It reads as if English is your 3rd language behind gibberish and dipshit.


majmalphunktion wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 6:11pm:
what the fuck guys...

Jeesus fucking shit. This shit gets me called to the principals office.

Assholes.
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Re: Newb to Shiradi: Sorc or Wiz
Reply #24 - Aug 26th, 2013 at 6:37pm
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AtomicMew wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 10:25pm:
You say we should have a discussion then jump straight to ad hom.  Brilliant, trololol. 

Freaking out is what the vault does best!
  
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