I've edited this 7/24/14 to reflect that there is no reason to be drow anymore, just go Halfling. Since Halfling crit threat range enhancements to thrown weapons is fixed, it is the superior choice by a healthy margin.

Stats: Dex 20, Wis 16, rest Con and Int for skillz

Halfling
1 Rogue: PBS
2 Monk: Dodge
3 Monk: Rapid Shot, Precision
4 Monk:
5 Monk:
6 Monk: Shuriken Expertise
7 Monk: 10K
8 Wizard: Extend
9 Wizard: Rapid Shot
10 Wizard
11 Wizard
12 Wizard: Precise Shot, Quicken (Could take MT if you want)
13 Monk
14 Monk
15 Monk: IC Thrown
16 Monk
17 Monk
18 Monk: IPS
19 Rogue
20 Rogue
Epic21: Completionist
Epic24: Deflect Arrows
Epic26: Who Cares
Epic27: Epic Reflexes
Epic28: DoubleShot

Enhancements are:
Halfing: 17AP for Master Thrower, +3 Saves, 2 Dex, 3SA dice.
EK: 31AP to Get Perma Tensors
Ninja: 8'ish AP Just enough for Core 2 extra shurikens, maybe enough for +3 Dodge Cap.
Acrobat: 15AP to Haste Boost, Dex, and Shadow Dodge I only take 2 tiers of Haste boost as it's useless on this character, as is everything else in this stupid tree except shadow dodge and Dex.
Shintao: 1AP 5% healing amp and 10 Pos SP.
-------
72'ish? Play with the rest.


Over the last 6 months this particular character went from a 5 year old bank toon, to a epic/heroic completionist and about 12 different non-stoned lives through lvl28 as different shuriken builds. I borrowed heavily from Distributed's Pew Pew thread and also the ****hole DDO forums Shuricannon and Backwoods Chucker threads, which are awesome. My very fist Shuriken build for this toon was a 20 Monk Shuricannon. But because I was too busy trying out different builds and play testing them relatively thoroughly, I never posted any specific builds until now. 

Honestly the ultimate inspiration for this build was the question that I realized lay at the power equation for ANY shuriken build:

How high can I get my Dex?. So far, it's 85, but that's without any twisted from other ED's, I could pick up reasonably 1 or 2 since I have epic completionist. Running around without pots it's about 76-78 reliably.

Dexterity is so far and away the primary stat of a shuriken build that literally nothing else should stand in the way of acquiring more dexterity short of a direct DPS increasing alternative (like say, the argument for Overwhelming Crit, which I currently do not take). It increasing you atk/dmg directly as it's the stat for those with shuriken. It also directly increases your ranged dps by 2% for every point of Dexterity you take through the action of Shuriken Expertise and Ninja Spy's Core 2 enhancement. And it's also one of your more powerful defensive stats because it increase the crucial Reflex save.

The most significant, class specific boosts to Dexterity are: Wizard/Sorc based Tensers Transformation (+4 Stacking Dex, Str and Con) and Shadow Dodge from the Rogue Thief-Acrobat tree. Tensors also gives the unique bonus Full BaB bonus. For ranged/throwing attacks, the difference is considerable at BAB 28 (somewhere between 3-5% from 24 BAB, though I am meaning to retest it again more thoroughly one of these days). Shadow Dodge also gives +3% Dodge.

So, the argument I had in my head for a long time was: why not just use shroud clickies for displace and scroll tensers? The answer is, you can do that. But, you're taking a HUGE DPS hit if you are not meticulous and perfectly attentive to always being Tensered all the time. Also, mine can't be dispelled. I can't run out of it in the middle of a quest. I don't have to switch weapons, cast it, and switch back every-time I want it's benefits. I don't know how anyone else plays but I know how I play: fast and with a focus on doing as much damage as I possibly can as fast as I can. I don't even like to let off the DPS to heal myself unless I absolutely have to. Doing DPS is as much about spending as little time as possible NOT doing DPS as it is about being built and geared properly. To that end, I feel perma-Tenser is actually vastly superior to scrolled Tenser's. And the effects of Tensers are so important to this build, you honestly should really never be without it. It's like Blinding Speed. Assuring the permanence of your most crucial abilities, I think, is the top priority.

I know that when I did not have perma-Tensers, I did not have 100% uptime for Tensers. In reality I would have been lucky to manage 70%, realistically. In my mind, that makes Perma Tensers at least 30% better than scrolled Tensers. Once you build for Shadow Dodge and Perma Tensers, the rest falls into place pretty easily.

Speed Tests:
I did some tests just now at lvl 25, in Shiradi. I have whirling wrists, but 0% Doubleshot. I tested using consumable Throwing daggers. The reason for this is that I am strictly testing thrown attack animation speed, not procs. If I used Shuriken, the extra procs from Shuriken Expertise and Ninja Spy would actaully cause more than 1 dagger to come out of the stack on throws, and therefore I wouldn't actually know if the animation is faster in one test vs another because the dice rolls are pseudo-random. Instead, we can control that factor by just throwing daggers, since they can only come out one at a time. Tests were done with no buffs except blinding speed (22% alacrity) and with/without Tensors.

To throw 2 stacks of 50 Throwing Daggers:
BaB 19 (12/5/3 Epic 5): 89.36 Seconds
BaB 25 (Tensors Up): 78.18 Seconds

I couldn't believe my eyes. That's a ~12% DPS increase. If Wiki is right and BaB increases attack animation speed every 5 BaB, that would explain this large number since my test crossed the Threshold at 20 and 25 BaB using Tensors (19->25) which would make every 5 BaB around 6% increase, at least for throwing weapon animations.

it's the best

12monk = obvious
5wiz is obviously about perma Tensors for full BAB + tier 2 ek = bonus d6 elemental damage
Guessing the bonus feats are extend (1min displace) and mental toughness?
3rogue = best use of left overs for 3sneak attack dice + traps (and acrobat to level to epics)

Is full BAB + 1min displace really worth giving up rams might sniper shot and aimed shot?

On a tablet atm, can't really make out pic, so going off the top of my head.

shadowdodge is the +dex&dodge thing right?

The build seems solid, but I feel like tensors scrolls last long enough to be viable, so I stick with ranger + I really prefer using a bow for furyshot.

Re: displacement, I've got 9clicky charges, in the heavy shrine content that exists nowdays its sufficient. All my toons had a stack of scrolls for when needed too.

Id be interested to hear how this plays vs spamming the deepwood sniper attacks, this build would definatley be better for someone who prefers consistency over actively managing cooldowns for efficiency.

Had a very similar build on lamma a few months back, for similar reasons. Mine was 12monk/5wiz/3pally for utterly stupid saves (also went halfling to test the crit range enhancement, which remains broken) and self healing. Thinking about TR'ing my main to something like this now that I'm about done with epic completionist.

My big gripe with the split/race I tried was the lack of extended sneak attack range. Perhaps it only required an accomodation in playstyle, but I often found myself kiting just outside of PBS range and losing all sneak attack consequently (used to my AA's longer sneak range, I guess). I never considered using /3 rogue to pick up extended sneak attack from mechanic and even shadow dodge (that I'm less sold on). I dig it! Another strong alternative on paper is 9monk/5wiz/6ranger for some lowhanging Deepwood Sniper action. Any thoughts on that?

I still like the idea of 5wiz for freebie displace and tensors: it eliminates some hassle and lets you focus on playing the IPS angles more, and there really aren't other compelling T5 abilities for a shuriken toon, other than slaying arrows, which are underwhelming if you prefer Shiradi. Thanks for posting this, it's something to think about.

What's your gear look like?

Alex DeLarge wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 12:29am:


Good Catch.

I had just ETR'd so I confused myself. Those tests were done as stated but WITHOUT Blinding speed as you called out. So really, just BaB 19 vs 25. Doesn't actually change the conclusions though.

For one thing you should definitely be using AA set. Put +3 dex somewhere else. 1 DEX<10% stacking haste

If you have seeker on belt then no need to swap to consuming darkness. Ring can go there.

harharharhar wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 1:11am:



yeah it sucks, but the least you could do is put 20% amp on it lol.

Off the top of my head:

When you do get gilv set, prowess can change to +3 DEX subterfuge. slot +2 WIS somewhere and switch to dragon masque (not sure how it fares vs making your wis odd). Black scale is still better for fort bypass\5% damage boost in my opinion. Tendon slice dunrobar is an option for ring, but not sure where you'd put deadly. You could move it to the cloak and lose the stacking seeker. Belt and boots seem fine.

1 Dex is 2% Damage, because of procs.

CA is 1d2 or 1.5 Damage. That is very likely not 2% of the total damage of 1 shuriken (so as to represent a 2% or more increase and make it more desirable than 1 Dex).

IMA is even worse at .5d2. 1 feat for .5D2? How do you believe that's better than 2% more Shuikens aka 2% more overall damage?

Also, Blinding speed is 22% Ranged alacrity. Haste, in my effects log and on my character sheet, for some reason, is showing as 15%, not the 20% were all accustomed to believing. Blinding speed on the other is giving the full 22%. That's a lot of alacrity on the table. That is the primary reason. That and if you cant tell, I like having haste and tensors on ALL THE TIME.

At least, that's how I'm looking at it.

If you're offhanding that then you can drop prowess trinket completely for Litany.

I'm not sure how you've worked out 1dex=2% dps.  I look at it like this:

from your numbers:
in 79 seconds you're tossing 100thrown weapons:

1 dex = 1 extra shuriken every 79 seconds

___________________________________________________________
so every 79 seconds:
100 shurikens thrown
80 from shuriken expertise
9    from double shot (last time i tested they could proc from expertise shuriken, I may be wrong now)
189 total shuriken every 79 seconds

CA = 1[1d2]  = 1.5 damage average
IMA = .5[1d2] = 1 damage average

CA = 189*1.5 = 283.5 damage every 79 seconds (completely excluding crits)
Ima = 189*1 = 189 damage every 79 seconds (no crits)

combined that's 472 damage over 79 seconds (again no crits)
____________________________________________________
vs 2 dex which = 2% chance at extra shuriken.

which imo means over that 79 second period you'll throw
100
82
9   
191 shots every 79 seconds. Are those 2 shots worth of procs sufficient enough to make up for the 472 base damage you're passing up?

I think it's highly unlikely that every shot you have averages to 236 damage worth of procs, but if so, take crits into account.

edit:
(I don't know your doubleshot i used an arbitrary 5% ie. 20% doubleshot, active 25% of the time)

harharharhar wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 2:03am:


Fuck I knew I was missing something major, that doesn't really change the outcome though.

Your throwing speed doesn't overly matter, you'll say it takes Xseconds to throw 100, and I'll change the totals to X seconds to match.  100 is the base, seconds is our irrelevant variable for this comparison.

In 79 seconds:
100 shurikens thrown
80 from shuriken expertise
80 from ninja spy
13    from double shot (last time i tested they could proc from expertise shuriken, I may be wrong now)
273 total shuriken every 79 seconds

CA = 273*1.5 = 409.5 damage every 79 seconds (completely excluding crits)
Ima = 273*1 = 273 damage every 79 seconds (no crits)
682 damage total

I think it's highly unlikely that every shot you have averages to damage (682/4) 170.5 worth of procs, but if so, take crits into account.