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So how's your lag? (Read 33549 times)

Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #25 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 7:07am	Print Post
	GMT Friday evenings is sure way to get some lag on Ghallanda. Not a single raid without some amount of lag. Not one.


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #26 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 7:13am	Print Post
	scythes wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 7:05am: most of the ppl i run with have fast internet,and a high end pc.and we still get server lag It surely helps that I play mostly off-peak, but all the hardware and bandwidth in the world won't help you if there is a routing issue.

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Distributed Abbot Raider Offline Posts: 855 Joined: Oct 4^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #27 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:05pm	Print Post
	Damn, if it's on our side, I should buy a lottery ticket every time our guild groups freeze considering we're in three different parts of the world. Stars aligned!
	« Last Edit: Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:05pm by Distributed »

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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #28 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:12pm	Print Post
	It's good for your education. You can hear "fucking lag" in different accents almost at the same time.


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scythes Dragon Raider Offline Vereor Messor Posts: 219 Joined: Aug 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #29 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:50pm	Print Post
	Distributed wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:05pm: Damn, if it's on our side, I should buy a lottery ticket every time our guild groups freeze considering we're in three different parts of the world. Stars aligned! i agree


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ghostbane Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 82 Location: In your mom Joined: Nov 8^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #30 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:54pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 10:09pm: My lag? Steady as a rock at 30-40 ms since I upgraded my internet service 6 months ago. I assume when people complain of constant lag that it is either crappy hardware, crappy ISP, or crappy geography. Bullshit! I have a top notch gaming rig I built myself and a good internet connection.� On multiple occasions I've experienced lag that was on the server side.� How can I confirm this? TEAMSPEAK. 10-15 people in TS, many of us from different countries and therefore following different ISP main trunk paths (routes) with some of us in different dungeons and everyone gets lag spikes at the same time... that is not due to shitty connections or rigs on our side. In addition, I have simultaneously been in LOTRO on multiple occasions where the lag spike that hits DDO also hits LOTRO.� Sorry, but I've been in IT 20 years and my experience tells me that is not a coincidence as it happens too frequently. If they run LOTRO on the same server clusters that DDO run on, then it could be a server/hardware issue, but I don't know that information.� So for now, I will� assume they do not run it on the same hardware and the issue is more likely a network based issue either at the data-center or a nearby router/segment hop somewhere very close to it. my $.02
	« Last Edit: Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:55pm by ghostbane »

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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #31 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 1:55pm	Print Post
	ghostbane wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:54pm: Bullshit! I have a top notch gaming rig I built myself and a good internet connection.� On multiple occasions I've experienced lag that was on the server side.� How can I confirm this? TEAMSPEAK. 10-15 people in TS, many of us from different countries and therefore following different ISP main trunk paths (routes) with some of us in different dungeons and everyone gets lag spikes at the same time... that is not due to shitty connections or rigs on our side. In addition, I have simultaneously been in LOTRO on multiple occasions where the lag spike that hits DDO also hits LOTRO.� Sorry, but I've been in IT 20 years and my experience tells me that is not a coincidence as it happens too frequently. If they run LOTRO on the same server clusters that DDO run on, then it could be a server/hardware issue, but I don't know that information.� So for now, I will� assume they do not run it on the same hardware and the issue is more likely a network based issue either at the data-center or a nearby router/segment hop somewhere very close to it. my $.02 So... there's a Turbine server-wide epic mob who is able to cast epic time stop that affects all players. Just my theory. Or the poor hamster who powers the Turbine servers stumbles a little, leading to a world-wide Turbine game lag-like effects. Still, I do believe that as a game lag does serve a purpose. Also, I've noticed that lag scales with difficulty. For example, lag on epic elite is more frustrating than on epic normal. I'm sure that the PC members will swear that lag does not exist in DDO. It's part of their contract or something =P.

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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #32 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 1:56pm	Print Post
	Also, soon on the DDO store: Lag-away Potion A one use potion that eliminates lag-like effects, including mob-cast Time Stop, stuttering, teleporting through walls, and stuck spots. Only 725 TP for 10 whole minutes!

	En taro Tassadar!
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FuckThisShit Abbot Raider Offline Posts: 787 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #33 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 1:59pm	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Also, soon on the DDO store: Lag-away Potion A one use potion that eliminates lag-like effects, including mob-cast Time Stop, stuttering, teleporting through walls, and stuck spots. Only 725 TP for 10 whole minutes!


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scythes Dragon Raider Offline Vereor Messor Posts: 219 Joined: Aug 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #34 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 1:59pm	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Also, soon on the DDO store: Lag-away Potion A one use potion that eliminates lag-like effects, including mob-cast Time Stop, stuttering, teleporting through walls, and stuck spots. Only 725 TP for 10 whole minutes! talking about p2w,where do i get in line at


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Turd_Ferguson Waterworks Kobold Offline It's a funny name. Posts: 174 Joined: Aug 18^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #35 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 2:14pm	Print Post
	I've been told multiple times by several different Turdbine ass lickers that there is no Lag in DDO, it's all a hardware issue on the users side. Turdbine obviously only employs the cream of the crop who use state of the art equipment. Why else would the ladder bug still be around 8 years after it was first reported?


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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #36 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 2:21pm	Print Post
	Turd_Ferguson wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 2:14pm: I've been told multiple times by several different Turdbine ass lickers that there is no Lag in DDO, it's all a hardware issue on the users side. Turdbine obviously only employs the cream of the crop who use state of the art equipment. Why else would the ladder bug still be around 8 years after it was first reported? Hush, you. Thanks to the ladder bug, those exploits still work.

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scythes Dragon Raider Offline Vereor Messor Posts: 219 Joined: Aug 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #37 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 2:23pm	Print Post
	NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 2:21pm: Hush, you. Thanks to the ladder bug, those exploits still work. you better be quite before they catch on that we don't want it fixed


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Barkabout Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1032 Joined: Aug 15^th, 2013	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #38 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 3:56pm	Print Post



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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #39 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	Turbine is powered by their fans. Turbine generates shit. Lag is the natural outcome when that shit hits their fans.

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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scythes Dragon Raider Offline Vereor Messor Posts: 219 Joined: Aug 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #40 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 5:57pm	Print Post
	i thought they was powered by hamsters


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NOTSunnyshadow Out of Order Offline Kobold remember waterworks! Posts: 2193 Joined: Jan 24^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #41 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 5:58pm	Print Post
	scythes wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 5:57pm: i thought they was powered by hamsters Only one hamster, now. The other one jumped ship and is now set to power Infinite Crisis.

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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #42 - Sep 4^th, 2014 at 11:57pm	Print Post
	ghostbane wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:54pm: Bullshit! I have a top notch gaming rig I built myself and a good internet connection.� On multiple occasions I've experienced lag that was on the server side.� How can I confirm this? TEAMSPEAK. 10-15 people in TS, many of us from different countries and therefore following different ISP main trunk paths (routes) with some of us in different dungeons and everyone gets lag spikes at the same time... that is not due to shitty connections or rigs on our side. In addition, I have simultaneously been in LOTRO on multiple occasions where the lag spike that hits DDO also hits LOTRO.� Sorry, but I've been in IT 20 years and my experience tells me that is not a coincidence as it happens too frequently. If they run LOTRO on the same server clusters that DDO run on, then it could be a server/hardware issue, but I don't know that information.� So for now, I will� assume they do not run it on the same hardware and the issue is more likely a network based issue either at the data-center or a nearby router/segment hop somewhere very close to it. my $.02 I'm just telling you what I see. I used to play on a shitty laptop over a shitty wireless connection. I would get hit with lag all the time. I spent a lot of time optimizing settings to get my gear to work reliably. Now that I have the real deal for computer and connection I never see any issues. You say its not you, but we don't really know that unless you give more information. Who is your ISP? How much bandwidth do you get up and down? What is your average latency in game? What are your hardware specs? (processor, RAM, video card) Wired or wireless? If wireless did you remember to disable the router option for resending lost packets? OS? If Windows, did you remember to install DDO outside of the "Program Files" folder? Did you remember to disable/suppress background processes that use system resources and/or bandwidth at inopportune times? Did you remember to program your antivirus software to ignore DDO? Then there's geography. I don't expect people to give out locations here, but how many miles are you from Boston? How many hubs does your data need to go through to get there?
	« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2014 at 12:03am by 5 Foot Step »
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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9967 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #43 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 4:04am	Print Post
	Oh I love it clueless people... Note : I'm not defending Turbine, there is some server lag... but there's just so many thing wrongs in the quote below that I can't resist. scythes wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 7:05am: most of the ppl i run with have fast internet,and a high end pc.and we still get server lag No. Yes you get lag, but it's not possible for you to tell if it's server Lag or Carrier lag. Wipe wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 7:07am: GMT Friday evenings is sure way to get some lag on Ghallanda. Not a single raid without some amount of lag. Not one. Usually the Friday Raidathon of The Spellswords doesn't encounter lag... and since we are EU based and all... Raids starts at 7:30 Uk Time... ghostbane wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 12:54pm: I have a top notch gaming rig I built myself and a good internet connection. On multiple occasions I've experienced lag that was on the server side. How can I confirm this? TEAMSPEAK. 10-15 people in TS, many of us from different countries and therefore following different ISP main trunk paths (routes) with some of us in different dungeons and everyone gets lag spikes at the same time... that is not due to shitty connections or rigs on our side. In addition, I have simultaneously been in LOTRO on multiple occasions where the lag spike that hits DDO also hits LOTRO. Sorry, but I've been in IT 20 years and my experience tells me that is not a coincidence as it happens too frequently. If they run LOTRO on the same server clusters that DDO run on, then it could be a server/hardware issue, but I don't know that information. So for now, I will assume they do not run it on the same hardware and the issue is more likely a network based issue either at the data-center or a nearby router/segment hop somewhere very close to it. Typically, this is not SERVER lag. It already happened numerous times... There's threads here and in the main forum about it. Anyway, I'm going to repost it and all the explanations : Turbine has a SPOF between their network and PNAP. PNAP has a SPOF between them and Cogent ( the preferred carrier for Turbine ) in the case of Turbine. DDO tracert from $ORK : Code H:\>tracert gls.ddo.com Tracing route to gls.ddo.com [74.201.102.13] over a maximum of 30 hops: 10 57 ms 76 ms 55 ms 193.180.17.236 11 55 ms 56 ms 55 ms 78.77.163.217 12 56 ms 56 ms 56 ms s-b1-link.telia.net [213.155.136.7] 13 85 ms 56 ms 56 ms s-bb3-link.telia.net [62.115.137.158] 14 64 ms 67 ms 65 ms kbn-bb3-link.telia.net [62.115.139.169] 15 66 ms 66 ms 66 ms kbn-b3-link.telia.net [213.155.135.179] 16 66 ms 67 ms 66 ms hu0-5-0-0.rcr21.cph01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.14.33] 17 72 ms 72 ms 72 ms be2306.ccr42.ham01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.3.237] 18 79 ms 79 ms 79 ms be2187.ccr42.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.74.125] 19 85 ms 84 ms 84 ms be2276.ccr22.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.36.57] 20 163 ms 185 ms 163 ms be2389.ccr22.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.181] 21 214 ms 164 ms 165 ms te3-2.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.130] 22 158 ms 161 ms 159 ms 38.122.52.50 23 258 ms 161 ms 166 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128.43] 24 157 ms 157 ms 157 ms turbine-7.border1.bsn003.pnap.net [64.95.76.202] 25 162 ms 164 ms 165 ms 74.201.102.154 26 164 ms 164 ms 169 ms 74.201.102.13 Everything before hop 10 is internal corporate notwork, so it's unimportant... I've purged it. If DDO and LoTRO freeze at the same time, from All over the world... the culprit is : turbine-7.border1.bsn003.pnap.net or border1.te7-1-bbnet1.bsn003.pnap.net That's not a Turbine router... it's a PNAP router. Why I can say that ? Because ALL traffic that goes to a Turbine server go through these two routers. That's basic routing protocol... that's my job troubleshooting these fucking things. As you can see LOTRO uses the same two routers... ( well for me it follow the same path. ) Code H:\>tracert gls.lotro.com Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [74.201.102.12] over a maximum of 30 hops: 10 55 ms 55 ms 55 ms 193.180.17.236 11 55 ms 60 ms 56 ms 78.77.163.217 12 56 ms 56 ms 56 ms s-b6-link.telia.net [62.115.138.53] 13 56 ms 57 ms 56 ms s-bb3-link.telia.net [62.115.136.20] 14 65 ms 75 ms 66 ms kbn-bb3-link.telia.net [62.115.139.171] 15 67 ms 70 ms 67 ms kbn-b3-link.telia.net [62.115.142.75] 16 67 ms 67 ms 67 ms hu0-5-0-0.rcr21.cph01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.14.33] 17 71 ms 73 ms 71 ms be2303.ccr41.ham01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.3.161] 18 79 ms 79 ms 80 ms be2186.ccr41.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.74.121] 19 86 ms 89 ms 85 ms be2275.ccr21.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.51.253] 20 157 ms 156 ms 157 ms be2388.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.177] 21 173 ms 163 ms 166 ms te3-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.134] 22 167 ms 163 ms 162 ms 38.104.252.70 23 157 ms 159 ms 156 ms border1.te8-1-bbnet2.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128.107] 24 161 ms 158 ms 157 ms turbine-7.border1.bsn003.pnap.net [64.95.76.202] 25 161 ms 163 ms 162 ms 74.201.102.154 26 164 ms 163 ms 162 ms 74.201.102.12 Trace complete. Now if only a part of the world is hit by lag... it's another router somewhere else, as I pointed in one of the previous threads. To detail further ( as I said that cogent and PNAP also have a SPOF ) : Code te3-2.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.130] 62 ms 38.104.252.70 These two culprits are the peering routers between Cogent and PNAP... if any encounters a problem you will get lag... Since, the previous one ( be2388.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com ) aggregates most of the traffic that comes into Boston from far away, you have good chances to go through it... So that makes 5 different machines, that can generate widespread, worldwide impacting lag...that are NOT servers, and that do not belongs to Turbine. Add to that Hop 25 ( that's the first Turbine system... and it's not a server but a router ) and the eventual transparent firewall somewhere between it and the border router... And you've got 7 sources of lag, that are NOT servers... and only 2 of those sources are controlled by Turbine. So before pointing fingers towards servers give proof of it. As we used to say around here : Screenshot or it didn't happen... Make a traceroute when you get hit by lag... and post it... it will give proof of where the lag is... If the traceroute is clean but you lag like there is no tomorrow in game, then it will be the server.

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DropBear Dropbear Awareness Society Offline Don't forget to look up.... Posts: 4374 Location: Landdownunder Joined: Oct 11^th, 2013	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #44 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:19am	Print Post
	Thanks for that Flav - that even made sense to a non-network guy. Out of curiosity, hop 20 in both of your trace routes saw a significant latency increase - is that the transatlantic crossing for you? Both cogent routers - going from the codes, it looks like hop 19 is London and 20 is Boston? If so, I am surprised there is a direct trunk connection. My normal latency on a good day with fast cable connection is ~300ms lately, so a fair way behind you.

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FuckThisShit Abbot Raider Offline Posts: 787 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2014	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #45 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:46am	Print Post
	DropBear wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:19am: My normal latency on a good day with fast cable connection is ~300ms lately, so a fair way behind you.� � lies, you have 12 hours to have it tested by an impartial 3rd party like dropbear.... ohhh wait wow and i thought i had it bad in the uk with 90ms, geez i almost feel sry for you now


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #46 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:44am	Print Post
	I don't wanna even unerstand single word what you wrote Flav but since you quoted me, I am totally convinced now. There is no lag. It's not like I have more than 300 completions with Omni with multiple lag instances. Used to raid 4 - 5 times per week, it's kinda dead now though. Or even no raidage possible during fucking Crystal Cove. Or how some people had to wait 2 hours for DMs to spawn chests after lag wipe and such. Really glad that your guild runs don't have any lag.
	« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:07am by Wipe »

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Terebinthia Horoluth Raider Offline All your cupcakes are belong to me! :D Posts: 2499 Joined: Jan 6^th, 2011	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #47 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:48am	Print Post
	I usually run with 2 other people in the UK, so if it is a router thingy near Boston, that could make sense to me. I often run with Crimson Eagles on their raid trains in my daytime, and I guess they could all be coming in to a similar or same router thingy (fear my technical wording). Whatever it is, it's annoying. Wonder why it's gotten worse in the last two weeks or so?


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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9967 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #48 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:53am	Print Post
	DropBear wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 7:19am: Thanks for that Flav - that even made sense to a non-network guy. Out of curiosity, hop 20 in both of your trace routes saw a significant latency increase - is that the transatlantic crossing for you? Both cogent routers - going from the codes, it looks like hop 19 is London and 20 is Boston?� If so, I am surprised there is a direct trunk connection. My normal latency on a good day with fast cable connection is ~300ms lately, so a fair way behind you.� � 19� � 86 ms� � 89 ms� � 85 ms� be2275.ccr21.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.51.253] 20� �157 ms� �156 ms� �157 ms� be2388.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.177] Yup, London to Boston. The link is not direct... for the sake of clarity I didn't talk of� all the Puny things that are crossed but do not appear in the traceroute... Like DWDM Multiplexers ( 1/2ms ), MPLS Backbone Routers ( P Routers, also 1/2ms ) Do you really think there's a direct cable from Stockholm ( hop 10-13 ) to Copenhagen ( hop 14-16) then to Hamburg ( Hop 17 ), to Amsterdam ( hop 18 ), to London ( Hop 19 ). For this last leg, I can tell you that there's at least 4 routers in the middle. ( 2 at each Chunnel exit, probably one in Lille and another one in Brussel ) along with the relevant DWDM multiplexer. Edit : Wipe wrote on Sep 5^th, 2014 at 8:44am: There is no lag. I said usually... we do encounter some lag from time to time... I didn't say that there is not lag, just that it's not as widespread as what people thin, and that it's source is not always Turbine servers. ( and actually I suspect that most of the time it's NOT turbine's servers... but I can't prove it )
	« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2014 at 9:58am by Flav »
	Yes my avatar is an Hermine eating a Greenland Lemming for brunch.
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Sim-Sala-Bim Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Wha...? Posts: 5356 Joined: Nov 2^nd, 2013 Gender:	Re: So how's your lag? Reply #49 - Sep 5^th, 2014 at 10:00am	Print Post
	Distributed wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2014 at 5:33pm: Been having stutter lag and freezes a lot more than usual. I'd say at least every time I play I freeze once for over 10 seconds. That's on Sarlona. Same. Same.


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