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Angry
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Handwraps fighter
Sep 18th, 2014 at 5:10am
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Here's the other build I've been working on. I'm bored with my cetus copy (not exact copy, since she's not completionist and doesn't have all +5 tomes), and I would like to TR her into an iconic handwraps fighter. The idea like with the other one is to do some eTR's, then TR again when I feel bored with the build.

lawful good pdk female 12 fighter/ 8 monk
heroic pls: monk x2, barbarian, fighter
epic pls: doublestrike x2
starting stats: str 18, dex 14, con 16, int 10, wis 10, cha 8
tomes used: +5 con, +4 str, dex, wis, rest +3

Feats:
PA
Cleave
Toughness
Stunning fist
Dodge
TWF
Light path
Great cleave
Mobility
Spring attack
IC: bludgeoning
Combat expertise
Master of forms
Improved TWF
Past life: disciple of the fist (filler feat, sort of)
Grandmaster of forms
Greater TWF
Whirlwind attack
OC
Epic toughness
Perfect TWF
Blinding Speed
First Blood

And her's the latest version of the enhancements:


I also posted the build on the ddo forums here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448739-Handwraps-fighter
« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2014 at 3:15am by Angry »  
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Munkenmo
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 5:33am
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picking up divine might would get you more dps than what you gain from your 8th monk level die step.  Failing that if you're the sort of person who doesn't like active abilities, 1rogue would also improve your dps, and offer full ranks in umd.

Either give up power surge and go 9monk for improved evasion or stop at 6 monk levels and splash more.

Personally I prefer 2 FVS and divine might, since it also opens up empower heal.

Don't waste the AP on kensai seeker, Violence begets violence is much better and costs half the AP you've wasted on seeker.  You only need 21ap in Kensai to qualify for Power surge, so stop at 21ap.

If you really want that extra point in wisdom it's easy to pick up from ninja spy.
« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2014 at 5:42am by Munkenmo »  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:10am
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All good points from Munk.

Considering you'll be using SF you definitely want to pick up No Mercy from ninja spy tree (and some more SA damage on the way up there). Power surge is nice but not nearly as good and not worth the AP and heavy levels in fighter.

What I'd suggest is first option 9 monk (Imp evasion) 9 fighter 2 Pali.
Pro's would be:
imp evasion, cha to saves, DM and ability to decide between fighter pl or monk pl (9/9/2 f/m/p will give you a fighter pl and 8/9/3 or 8/10/2 will give you a monk pl of course).
Con's would be:
need to spend a twist (bane of undead) in order to use DM, no empower heal.

2ed option 9 monk/10 fighter/1 fvs
Pro's would be:
Imp evasion, DM without twisting bane of undeath, empower heal, 1 more feat from fighter.
Cons would be:
No cha to saves, can still choose between fighter and monk pl but at the cost of a feat.

« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:11am by SayWhatAgain »  
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Munkenmo
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:20am
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I'm not a big fan of the spring attack chain or grandmaster of forms.  So I'd advise atleast picking up shuriken expertise and 10k stars to give you some ranged dps.

PA
Cleave
Toughness
Stunning fist
Dodge
TWF
Light path
Great cleave
weapon focus bludgeoning
weapon spec bludgeoning
IC: bludgeoning
shuriken expertise
Master of forms
Improved TWF
Past life: disciple of the fist (filler feat, sort of)
10k stars
Greater TWF
empower heal
OC
Epic toughness
Perfect TWF
Blinding Speed
First Blood

As for your enhancements:



This is only 75ap, but that doesn't overly matter. Either stay 12/8 and pick up additional kensai focus weapons, or splash 12/6/2 and drop 4ap from Ninja spy, giving you 9ap to spend elsewhere.

eg fvs.


or rogue.


Unlike the poster above me, I'm not a big fan of no mercy on an unarmed build, it's much more useful on a ranged build. Any mob you land stunning fist on is already dead anyway.
  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:37am
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I need to think about this, and discuss this with friend.

But "some ranged dps" I don't agree with. My cetus has "some" ranged dps and to me is so shitty that it's like having none at all. Might be that I don't play her right, but I don't see higher numbers than just over 600 crits with manyshot and boosts... so  even though I play with the bow once in a while it feels like it's more for show than for killing stuff.

Note that lvl 28 is also rather moot, cause I won't play my builds at cap, not much anyway.
  
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Munkenmo
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:58am
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Eh then pick up quicken for faster rejuv cocoon animations. It's preference.  The fact of the matter is though, pretty much anything is better than the whirlwind attack line.

I'm not sure what you're expecting, but if you're consistently hitting 600 (first number) during manyshots (not fury shots) unblitzed that's pretty decent. Secondary ranged dps is never going to have the same dps as a primarily ranged character.

To me it's more about for 1 feat (shuriken expertise) I can toss up to 3 shurikens at a time rather than 2.  There's no fucking way am I going to be that guy who didn't even allow one feat towards a ranged option on a fighter build.
  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 7:02am
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:58am:
There's no fucking way am I going to be that guy who didn't even bring tornado pots.

fixed, no need to thank me
  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 7:11am
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:58am:
whirlwind attack line

it's redonk since u21 broke melee. It now can hit up to 7 times(4 normally, +off-hand, +doublestrike, +off-hand doublestrike) all mobs in a full circle around you. Great Cleave is also hitting up to 4 times, as are all Ki attacks, stunning fist, QP.

You really want the fighter life? Missing out on die step increases and improved martial arts.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 7:21am
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 7:11am:
redonk since u21 broke melee. It now can hit up to 7 times(4 normally, +off-hand, +doublestrike, +off-hand doublestrike) all mobs in a full circle around you. Great Cleave is also hitting up to 4 times, as are all Ki attacks, stunning fist, QP.


I knew there something that somebody told me about whirwind attacks that i liked a lot, now I remember who and what  Wink
  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #9 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 3:16am
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I considered the 2 fvs, but no, I'll go with the build as it is. Now just gotta get my toon to 28, lol
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #10 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:47am
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 7:11am:
it's redonk since u21 broke melee. It now can hit up to 7 times(4 normally, +off-hand, +doublestrike, +off-hand doublestrike) all mobs in a full circle around you. Great Cleave is also hitting up to 4 times, as are all Ki attacks, stunning fist, QP.

You really want the fighter life? Missing out on die step increases and improved martial arts.


Whirlwind is awesome on a HW user, crap for anything else.
Never seen it generate more than 5 hits though.
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #11 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:54am
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:47am:
Whirlwind is awesome on a HW user, crap for anything else.
Never seen it generate more than 5 hits though.

Must be out of wolf form, high doublestrike, and p2wf. Should get up to 7. Havent been a whilrwind monk since a bit after u21
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #12 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 9:46am
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:54am:
Must be out of wolf form, high doublestrike, and p2wf. Should get up to 7. Havent been a whilrwind monk since a bit after u21


My whirlwind monk is rather recent. I suspect whatever u21 broke was fixed since then (at least regarding whirlwind attack). Still it's a fantastic attack (again for HW only).
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #13 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 9:51am
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 9:46am:
My whirlwind monk is rather recent. I suspect whatever u21 broke was fixed since then (at least regarding whirlwind attack). Still it's a fantastic attack (again for HW only).


Smiley I'm gonna try and keep my expectations in check, cause otherwise I'll just end up saying "ppl told me this build is awesome, but to me it's only half decent".
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #14 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 10:08am
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Off topic question, but you guys may know...does Violence Begets Violence work with centered weapons (Kama, quarterstaff, shortsword)?  I know I've had it work with bows before....
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #15 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 11:07am
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 9:46am:
I suspect whatever u21 broke was fixed since then (at least regarding whirlwind attack). Still it's a fantastic attack (again for HW only).

Just tested on lama. Wind stance, divine crusader with righteous zeal active, meditation of war, deft strikes, 16m/2ftr/2rng. Up to 7 hits on whirlwind, 4 on great cleave, monk Ki attacks, stunning fist, and QP.

DoRayEgon wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 10:08am:
.does Violence Begets Violence work with centered weapons (Kama, quarterstaff, shortsword)

Not sure on Kama and qstaff, but positive it works on short swords in wolf form.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #16 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 2:50pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 11:07am:
2rng

I'm obviously missing something here...
  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #17 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:10pm
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I love Monks.  As a splash (2-3 levels) and Pure (20 levels).  This is the reason I do not like anything in-between (for hand wrap Monks).

1d6 - Monk level 1
1.5[1d6] - Monk level 4
2[1d6] - Monk level 8
2.5[1d6] - Monk level 12
3[1d6] - Monk level 16
3.5[1d6] - Monk level 20

According to Monk fist damage
you get die with 2 sides more each die step you go up for monk die step bonuses.

2d4 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 -> 2d12 -> 2d14 -> 2d16 -> 2d18 -> 2d20

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/238287-Monk-fist-damage
« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:12pm by Red Sox H8 Yankees »  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #18 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 6:20pm
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wow, you managed to merge the old system and the new system.  If it worked like how you think unarmed monks would be undisputed top dps.

Here I'll use your own quote to help you out.

This is how it works now:

Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:10pm:
I love Monks.  As a splash (2-3 levels) and Pure (20 levels).  This is the reason I do not like anything in-between (for hand wrap Monks).

1d6 - Monk level 1
1.5[1d6] - Monk level 4
2[1d6] - Monk level 8
2.5[1d6] - Monk level 12
3[1d6] - Monk level 16
3.5[1d6] - Monk level 20




Your numbers are wrong, but this is how it used to work before the +[w] pass :

Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:10pm:
According to Monk fist damage
you get die with 2 sides more each die step you go up for monk die step bonuses.

2d4 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 -> 2d12 -> 2d14 -> 2d16 -> 2d18 -> 2d20

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/238287-Monk-fist-damage


From what I remember monk progression used to be  1d6 > 1d8 > 1d10 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10 
monk pastlife feat could improve that to 2d12 
jidz tet ka in earth could improve that to 2d14. (excluding animal forms) 2d14 was the maximum possible unarmed damage before the era of +w 

The two systems do not co-exist. I'll stand by my claim that 20monk is a waste of time for people playing in EE.  16monk is the sweet spot.
« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2014 at 6:34pm by Munkenmo »  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #19 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:13pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 11:07am:
Just tested on lama. Wind stance, divine crusader with righteous zeal active, meditation of war, deft strikes, 16m/2ftr/2rng. Up to 7 hits on whirlwind, 4 on great cleave, monk Ki attacks, stunning fist, and QP.

Not sure on Kama and qstaff, but positive it works on short swords in wolf form.


That's interesting, I'll have to switch to DC for more DS beat the dummie and see for my self. In that case it is even better then I thought. Thx for testing it!
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #20 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:15pm
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NOTdarth wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 2:50pm:
I'm obviously missing something here...


Sprint boost and twf.
Though 2 Pali is more popular.
  
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #21 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:16pm
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NOTdarth wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 2:50pm:
I'm obviously missing something here...

I wanted free feat. Build still couldnt fit in Grandmaster, Monk PL, Empower Heal, and OC. Also Sprint Boost is there. Figured more of a return than 4 Fighter, although now with changes Stalwart would have most likely been better.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #22 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:16pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 6:20pm:
wow, you managed to merge the old system and the new system.  If it worked like how you think unarmed monks would be undisputed top dps.

Here I'll use your own quote to help you out.

This is how it works now:



Your numbers are wrong, but this is how it used to work before the +[w] pass :


From what I remember monk progression used to be  1d6 > 1d8 > 1d10 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10 
monk pastlife feat could improve that to 2d12 
jidz tet ka in earth could improve that to 2d14. (excluding animal forms) 2d14 was the maximum possible unarmed damage before the era of +w 

The two systems do not co-exist. I'll stand by my claim that 20monk is a waste of time for people playing in EE.  16monk is the sweet spot.

Blame ddowiki and the mother forum link.  Just trying to shed some light.  Basic idea is still valid.
  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #23 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:20pm
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Red Sox H8 Yankees wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:16pm:
Blame ddowiki and the mother forum link.  Just trying to shed some light.  Basic idea is still valid.


The wiki has had the correct +[w] since the +[w] system made its way to lam.  Your mistake is entirely on you and the premise for your monk level priorities has been completely flawed.
« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:21pm by Munkenmo »  

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Re: Handwraps fighter
Reply #24 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:21pm
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SayWhatAgain wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 7:13pm:
to DC for more DS

On Lama currently Strikedown does nothing with monk unarmed attacks. Actual nothing. Nice job Sev.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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