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rockz
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Gnomes
Feb 12th, 2016 at 12:03pm
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If they don't really change barbarian, gnome light pick dual-wield?

Otherwise, this looks like nothing new.  Wisdom DC casting is a lot of work to be a bad, not fun toon.

Illusion is OK on epic hard 2 years ago.

Any good ideas?
  
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AtomicMew
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2016 at 3:47pm
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SLAs seem to be decent for force/shiradi casters.  Unfortunately, they both seem to be broken atm.
  
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Asheras
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2016 at 10:16am
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rockz wrote on Feb 12th, 2016 at 12:03pm:
Wisdom DC casting is a lot of work to be a bad, not fun toon.


I disagree.  I have a lot of fun playing my FvS these days.  The only build that can out-kill an implosion spec'd divine in LH or LE shroud is a DC spec'd fiend warlock.  And with the SLA's, you can do mana efficient light spell power DPS that is resepectable on reds and purples.  If you build it correctly, it isn't going to be a bad toon. 

But what is fun is really subjective.  Some people like Artis and Druids for example.  But I find them boring.
  
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DoRayEgon
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2016 at 10:26am
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Asheras wrote on Feb 15th, 2016 at 10:16am:
I disagree.  I have a lot of fun playing my FvS these days.  The only build that can out-kill an implosion spec'd divine in LH or LE shroud is a DC spec'd fiend warlock.  And with the SLA's, you can do mana efficient light spell power DPS that is resepectable on reds and purples.  If you build it correctly, it isn't going to be a bad toon. 

But what is fun is really subjective.  Some people like Artis and Druids for example.  But I find them boring. 


Most people fear not being able to hit the right DC's and it can be difficult without the right gear, past lives, etc.  so many people just don't try.
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2016 at 1:45pm
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rockz wrote on Feb 12th, 2016 at 12:03pm:
barbarian, gnome light pick dual-wield?


Assuming everything works as described, competence does not stack with Crit Rage anymore, so would be no point. (Admittedly I have not tested if the gnome crit actually counts as competence.)

rockz wrote on Feb 12th, 2016 at 12:03pm:
Any good ideas?


The +20 spellcraft in the iconic tree looks pretty sweet for nuker/spammer style casters...
  
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Billy the Id
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #5 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 9:04pm
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Deep Gnome barbarian, well worth the +1 LR.
  
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #6 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 9:21pm
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Well,the gnome's crit range do not stack with those crit range in class  trees...Besides,17 ponits in race tree is too much for revamped pure classes,not worth to use imo at all..Especially light pick lose a lot of dps compared to khopesh,and lose 1 feat+2str+damage boost compared to human.. Cry
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2016 at 9:23pm by Holyavatar »  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #7 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 12:41pm
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On second thought, with the non-stacking crit range bonus to picks, you could go t5 FB instead of ravager and eke out a little more dps with focused wrath etc maybe even be able to fit in ear smash. You'd have to give up Blood Strength though, so be willing to chug sov heal elixirs.

I'll have to look into this more thoroughly.
  
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #8 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 12:48pm
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the light pick pulls ahead by half an overwhelming critical, but falls behind with AP investment, no racial DB, low dice damage on picks

18-20/x4 on light pick (Gnome light pick)
vs
17-20/x3 on khopesh (Human Khop build) all other things being equal
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2016 at 12:50pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #9 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 3:45pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Feb 19th, 2016 at 12:48pm:
the light pick pulls ahead by half an overwhelming critical, but falls behind with AP investment, no racial DB, low dice damage on picks

18-20/x4 on light pick (Gnome light pick)
vs
17-20/x3 on khopesh (Human Khop build) all other things being equal


The AP is better on gnome, since you're not locked into 41 in FB and 36 in Ravager. Being able to take t5 in FB is many less dead points. Base damage is higher than khopesh because of the +6 damage in the racial tree. No double boost hurts, and is lower max damage for sure, but I'm not convinced that it is lower overall.

gnome pick DC 17-20x4+4 (35)
human pick DC 16-20x4 (34)
human pick LD 17-20x4+2 (33)
human khopesh LD (15-20x3+2 (33)
human warhammer LD 16-20x3+2 (32)
  
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Holyavatar
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 11:35pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 19th, 2016 at 3:45pm:
The AP is better on gnome, since you're not locked into 41 in FB and 36 in Ravager. Being able to take t5 in FB is many less dead points. Base damage is higher than khopesh because of the +6 damage in the racial tree. No double boost hurts, and is lower max damage for sure, but I'm not convinced that it is lower overall.

gnome pick DC 17-20x4+4 (35)
human pick DC 16-20x4 (34)
human pick LD 17-20x4+2 (33)
human khopesh LD (15-20x3+2 (33)
human warhammer LD 16-20x3+2 (32)


khopesh still has higher weapon damage...Your forgot about weapon dice multiplier..5.75*1d8 way better than 5.75*1d4+5(its 5 not 6)
You have to choose FB 41+37RA anway...otherwise you have to use DC,its huge drop in dps compared to LD because of Dire charge&improved crit nerf  Cry
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2016 at 11:36pm by Holyavatar »  
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WonderfulFoppyBint
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #11 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 2:44am
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T5 Ravager is no more damage than T5 FB for anything but light picks and riftmaker. I've always looked at it as an AP trap for a marginal damage increase, although the healing was super nice.

You get another "overwhelming critical" from using T5Rav over T5FB. I've always gone for earsmash and harper instead.

DC is nice with light picks, I can see why people like that.

I have no aversion to SF pots and Consecrated ground twist in LD.
« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2016 at 2:44am by WonderfulFoppyBint »  
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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #12 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 4:33am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 19th, 2016 at 3:45pm:
No double boost hurts,


So hard to get myself to run non-human these days, unless it's on Lamma.
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #13 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 11:29am
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Holyavatar wrote on Feb 19th, 2016 at 11:35pm:
khopesh still has higher weapon damage...Your forgot about weapon dice multiplier..5.75*1d8 way better than 5.75*1d4+5(its 5 not 6)


First off, it is +6.

Quote:
Gnomish Weapon Training I: +1 to hit and damage
Gnomish Weapon Training II: +1 to hit and damage
Gnomish Weapon Training III: +2 to hit and damage
Gnomish Weapon Training IV: +2 to hit and damage. +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range


Yes, yes. 5.75*1d8 (25.875) is still higher than 5.75*1d4+6 (20.375)...but you are not accounting for the 2 melee power you lost by taking an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat instead of a Weapon Focus feat. This more than makes up the difference.

Holyavatar wrote on Feb 19th, 2016 at 11:35pm:
You have to choose FB 41+37RA anway...otherwise you have to use DC,its huge drop in dps compared to LD because of Dire charge&improved crit nerf  Cry


DC is less than it used to be, but it's close enough now to be a flavor/playstyle choice.
  
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #14 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 4:47pm
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I thought everyone agreed on a "no gnomes" stipulation in every lfm?
  
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Billy the Id
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Re: Gnomes
Reply #15 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 6:13pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 20th, 2016 at 11:29am:
First off, it is +6.


Yes, yes. 5.75*1d8 (25.875) is still higher than 5.75*1d4+6 (20.375)...but you are not accounting for the 2 melee power you lost by taking an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat instead of a Weapon Focus feat. This more than makes up the difference.


DC is less than it used to be, but it's close enough now to be a flavor/playstyle choice.



Angry Miners for everyone!
  
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