My buddy and I just came back to DDO after a 6 month break along with a new buddy. Since the new guy is fresh on the server we went ahead and made new first lifers to play along with him. I built an 18/2 Rogue/Arti running with Great Xbows and loved every minute of it. The damage was great the entire way and I enjoyed having the skill points to do Roguish things. We also got a Leverage on our only run through heroic TOEE as well as picking up a Divine Artillery around level 14 so again, damage was top notch.

I'd like to give the Paladin 14/Rogue 6 a try after we TR, but depending on the other guys I'm not sure if we're doing a 3rd TR before messing around in Epics. So long story short, I'm a bit leery to pull the trigger on the Paladin variant as I may be stuck in it for awhile. I'd like to know short and sweet what I'm gaining and/or giving up with this build versus the 18(or even pure 20) Rogue variant.

Holy Sword gives you an extra crit threat, though you lose a crit multiplier on Great xbow versus the core 18 Rogue enhancement. So it seems at first glance the Paladin version favors repeaters. Paladin obviously is a bit more durable and can self heal without relying on Cocoon so you have more twist options. Skills will be lacking compared to Rogue, but it seems if you space them out you can still max the important ones.

Anyone chime in with some general ideas for the major differences? I keep hearing that damage wise they are very close, but I can't quite see where it's coming from. Is holy sword just that good? I messed with repeater on the Rogue but they never seemed to outdo my Great Xbow damage. That said I never had an actual named repeater to compete and was relying on random loot.

If you wait until next week you could make a Gnome Mechanic. They will get a +6 to hit & damage, and a +1 crit range on light repeaters, and light xbows. Also the color spray will be Int based DC so you can get groups of blinded mobs on demand for Sneak Attack damage at 2nd level! and blur for free at 2-3rd level. +4 intelligence, huge UMD bonuses and lots more.

Admittedly the Pally can be more survivable, but if you have been happy running a Mech so far it would be fine.

Ok, so it's pretty much what I expected. I was reading some people saying the Paladin DPS was just as good as the Rogue's which wasn't adding up in my head.

So let me ask a secondary question. We are playing as a trio and I'd say our end goal is to be doing epic elites in said trio. None of us are tanks, we're all going to be ranged/casters with one that can heal if need be. With that in mind are pure or 18 Rogue mechanics too squishy to be running around in EE's, which is why the Paladin option is so popular? Or can their DPS allow them to hang back in a group staying out of danger most of the time?

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 24^th, 2016 at 2:22am:


This.

The game is all about DPS. Everything else is only situationally useful.

Revaulting wrote on Feb 26^th, 2016 at 5:58pm:







Tina, a 2nd lev Gninja. 

Steel wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:15pm:



GnxB:

vageta31 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2016 at 4:57pm:


OMFG kill yourself right NOW, faggot!

vageta31 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2016 at 4:57pm:

Probably less than you think. The difference between single-shot and triple-shot volley is probably accounting for the majority of your perceived dps difference, and named vs. not-named only a very small amount.

TL;DR: It sounds like the GxB better suits your current play-style. This might change in epics, depending on how many sneak dice you can squeeze into your build and on your SA-enabling gear.

The single-shot of a GxB allows faster target-switching, and fewer volleys lobbed at a dead mob. However, you aren't gaining the full benefit of sneak dice on a Pally split. In heroics, that doesn't fucking matter. Mobs are dropping in 1-2 shots, regardless.

The repeater animation was fixed, but its targeting is still left over from the old animation. If you auto-attack, you will almost always fire a full volley of three at each mob after you kill it. Even on manual, you'll still do this pretty often, until you get a feel for when a mob will/will not go down and are able to switch targets while the killing volley is still in the air. The drawback is that this affects ROF. But if the first bolt of a volley kills a mob, the other two are subtracting from your dps.

That's always been a drawback to repeaters, but nonetheless, they smooth out the dps much better than GxBs. GxBs spike wonderfully on crits, but leave you unable position yourself with distance alone guaranteeing no mob will reach melee. Because spiky is more random. Additionally, the consequence of a 1 is full loss of dmg. With a repeater, even with a 1, you still deliver 2/3. In epics, the SA comes to shore up and smooth out the non-crit dps of the GxB, while the crits are even more wild! Meanwhile, the ROF is much closer to a repeater's, without the repeater's targeting drawback.

All combined, the GxB is the clear winner in epics. Unless you lack for sneak dice. Or unless your build takes big advantage of on-hit procs. (e.g. take a look at the GT build and why it sometimes switches out of a GxB for dispelling shot).

you can grab a needle from the anniversary event and on a pure rogue gnome with Needle you get very nice crit range and multi, fyi.

repeater is better on paladin icons. and was overall better before the fix, when doubleshot would apply to each bolt at full rate. Now it's down to 1/3rd.

no. wrote on Feb 29^th, 2016 at 8:10pm:


Second Edit: I think I figured out where the confusion is.

Revaulting wrote on Feb 28^th, 2016 at 8:26pm:

But if the first bolt of a volley kills a mob, the other two are subtracting from your dps.

I intended to refer specifically to this sentence when I said, "That's always been a drawback for repeaters". The paragraph break muddled things.

Now I can delete the long-winded crap I had here before.