Or at least half-off?  Seriously SSG (or whatever the fuck you want to call yourselves...deep down you're still Turbine), there's no sin in selling week old donuts, but you can't seriously expect to keep them at their original price.  No wonder your damned game is dying.

If I never run Tangleroot again, it'll be too soon.  It would have been an amazing two part quest, four at most.  But 10 fucking parts?  Crap quest, crap loot, and Crap XP.  Crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.

Catacombs?  Crap.
Sharn Syndicate?  Too short and mostly crap.
Sorrowdusk?  Would have been great if you hadn't stretched each quest into two segments, so...at least half crap.
Seal of Shan-To-Kor?  You're ok STK, keep doing what you're doing...but your loot could use an upgrade.

The fucking waterworks quests are more creative and enjoyable (though equally crappy loot) than these packs.

Either give them away, cut the prices in half, or put some decent loot and XP to at least pretend you care about giving your customers a decent value for the bargain bin items that are the early quest packs.

Pointless rant over.

Using dimension door in the wilderness area helps speed Sorrowdusk up a little.

Why aren't SSG paying us to play their game?

Their economic model is severely flawed and has been forcing attrition.  Fortunately reaper hastened the process even move.  At this point though I don't think they have the brain cells left to rub together to figure out how to fix it.

You look at pretty much every growing/successful F2P game these days and they give the content away for free because that's what attracts players and then just sell them on cosmetics, quality of life stuff, etc...

If you had a playerbase with access to all content at the get go, you'd have 4~10x the players buying mirrors of glam, some of the outfits that don't look like ass, tomes, etc... and more.

I signed up for VIP because I figured I'd give SSG a chance but as others accurately predicted it was the same old assholes doing the same old stupid shit and blaming it on 'Turbine holding them back' was just forum pipe dreams.

Instead of fixing the game and revamping the UI, fixing basic engine issues, fixing old content that needs to be modified/revamped/modernized what do we get instead?

Fucking newcomers.  I've taken dumps that were made with more love and care then that pile of shit and they want 10 bucks for it?

Because people are still paying for it.

OK the other side of the coin....

Catacombs - 8 short quests {the running back and forth is the real issue} - 66 Favour {Silver Flame not so important now but that's still fast and easy favour}.

Tangleroot - 10 short quests - 99 Favour - Decent Slayer Zone too.

Sorrowdusk - 10 short quests {yes the running back and forth is annoying even with DDoor} - 117 Favour {One of the best Favour Packs in the game}.

Newcomers - Best New Quest since Haunted Halls! It's not even close - The first quest they've put at the correct base Heroic Level since ooh Lordsmarch II? If you're going to have a go at Newcomers well don't forget all the terrible quests we've had over the past couple of years!



STK - Loot's terrible, Favour's not great, Pt1,2 and 3 are all separate levels.
It's a fantastically playable questchain though - Just change Pt 1, Sacred Helm and Pt 3 to base Lvl 4 same as Pt 2.

Sharn - Worthless, One of the worst packs in the game and a complete and total newbie trap!
Make it F2P
The entire chain is only 36 Favour! The XP is comparatively weak, 2 quests are deathtraps/easily autofailable without a trapper!
And the Named Loot is a Joke because the Devs refused to upgrade it with augment slots and +w damage!
Sharn Syndicate used to be one of my favourite chains when I was new - I loved running it on my Rogue Mechs and Acrobats but even then I hated running it on any other classes/builds!

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 8:58am:

And yet... I still hate it less than Black and Blue. Go figure. Also, I haven't paid for content with anything but TP in years.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 8:58am:

I would agree with this. High volume Micro-transactions are the new black.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 8:58am:

I think Path of Exile pretty much nailed this right out of the gate. Lessons to be learned. It's all about the merch.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 8:58am:

The issue is: They've painted themselves into a corner with a p2p model and nobody in that Cesspit of Egotism has the guts or leadership to walk out.

If they went full-retard f2p... They could:

• Balance ALL classes properly
• Balance all races properly
• Balance all content correctly
• Work on QoL and bug fixes that are crippling the game
• Do a massive marketing push that would likely bring in legions of new players and fund current and future development or even a sequel
• Attract actual coding talent (and pay them, not enthusiastic but exploited interns)
• Get their business model out of the Stone Age

Alas, we know none of this is happening, but hey... It's fun to Blue Sky ideas.

Asheras wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

Because Favor = Free TP for content and other toys.

Also works if you're still grinding out 5k Favor for +5 tomes, which have a treacherously low drop rate in raids nobody plays anymore.

Metal-Beast wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 2:42pm:


Yeah...I have to admit, I care a lot more about favor now than I did a few years ago.  I'm not going to push myself to grind it out, but I'm hoping to earn enough to pick up one of the new MMs, because I sure as fuck ain't giving Turbine anymore of my money till they massively drop their prices.

Metal-Beast wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

Yeah, bingo. I spend way more on PoE than I do on DDO. They love their game, and it shows. I want to support them and I'll gladly throw dollars at the game to buy cosmetics to show my support.


Metal-Beast wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

If they did the first 4, the 5th wouldn't just bring in new players, it would bring back old ones driven away by the poor quality and antagonistic attitude DDO has presented over the last few years.

An old engine and dated graphics present no obstacle to a customer base motivated largely by nostalgia. It's the crap performance, bugs, and the arrogant attitude  of the visible staff that prevent the game from being the cult classic it could be.

I play other games with most of my former DDO guild mates, and they still tease me "Are you still playing that piece of crap and does it still suck" and I have to answer "on and off, and yes".  They'd come back in a heartbeat if SSG took the "full retard" path you describe.


Asheras wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

Another reason is it's something to work for with measurable progress. It may not be the biggest motivator, but for me, it's like personal challenges I set myself like seeing if I can get through a quest without using the shrine, or seeing if I can get through the quest without taking my character out of run mode. For those of us who don't play often enough to get the new gear before it's obsolete, it's something else to judge our progress by.

I have those packs and dont even play that shit... Too little xp and shit loot.. if i could sell them back now, i would.. 

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Of course not, consider who's doing it.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

This is comparing apples and oranges. WoW uses an entirely different system which is unfettered by the D&D license and d20 system (not that DDO uses d20 anymore, but whatever).

Also, nobody seems to talk about the fact WoW has been bleeding players badly for years now because of that same ridiculous imbalance. New players are so hopelessly behind the curve they don't even bother past the f2p introductory levels.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Those character paths are hot garbage. They'd be better of with 5-foot-Step's Beginner Builds, which isn't saying much.

And that's NOT a slight on 5Fs. There's only so much you can polish a turd.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Likely because D&D 3.5 wasn't balanced. See "licensing" above.

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

All of this was true...

Until Reaper.

Ranged is where it's at in Reaper. Or bring a Warlock and blast away.

One Carnage reaper ends and Melee's reaper run in 1 or two shots, at any number of Skulls. 3 to 4 shots for any other kind of reaper (if you can get that close). And that's assuming that more than one Reaper doesn't spawn at the same time.

DC casting is borked because they can't figure out how to create "challenge" without giving mobs millions of HP, inflated saves, immunity to everything defense with overkill damage, True Seeing and 100% Fort Bypass.

Improving spell DPS outside of Shiradi Spam is also going to get s response of: "Just play a Warlock".

Likewise, Sorc is still OK, just not Teh Ub3rz anymore. It's also a f2p class and the basis of Meta-builds, so the incentive to add spell DPS is nil.

They will also cry "balance" because they figure if they make DCs viable to the non-super-tricked-and-geared-triple-completionist crowd, then everyone will swap to Necro Builds and people will scream "ZOMG!! Balancez!!! NERF PLZ!1!11!"

And they're probably right.

Although, my opinion on this is entirely anecdotal, since I have never tried to play a caster of any kind to Epic cap (unless Warlock counts).

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Sometimes, ignorance is a blessing 

Zehnpai wrote on Jun 8^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:


Balance is also unnecessary.

In a game without PvP, its OK for certain race/class/build combos to be objectively better than others.

There's a concept in game design called "incomperables" - and you're seeing it in action right here in this thread. The argument over ranged vs. melee vs DC caster. As long as no one can agree on one being "the best" SSG's balance is fine.