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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) What the hell happened between MoTU and DD? (Read 8554 times)
Head-Meat
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #25 - Jul 31st, 2017 at 9:14pm
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Starkjade wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Welcome back!



Don't be so sure. He pulled a random months ago with no second post... He's a shifty one.


EDIT:

This account last post: Quote:
on: Nov 29th, 2016 at 2:04pm



Other account was used in late 2015.
« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2017 at 9:21pm by Head-Meat »  


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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #26 - Aug 1st, 2017 at 12:56am
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Flav wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 11:39am:
Most of the things happens on the Sword Coast where they are not allowed to go, so in the end they should have stuck to Eberron and developed the world ( there's so many things to explore, and there's still several Eberron missing races ) instead of forking to Faerun...

Or they coulc have gone the whole way and went Sigil... with portals to everywhere... (but obviously they didn't, they just went bits and pieces of Faerun to please the drooling mass )

This.

They didn't even need to leave Xend'rik, never mind other locations in Ebberon.

And we're gonna get gay-ass Tieflings and Aasimar long before we get the Shifters and Kalashtar we should have had years ago.

Sigil would have been fucking sick... Or even a site with Spelljammer ships, but I think that's simply beyond the scope of DDO. Or at least this dev team.

Planescape should be an entirely separate game in it's own right.

Edited:
fuck you Flav... Now I have to go and reinstall Planescape: Torment. Again.


  

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Flav
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #27 - Aug 1st, 2017 at 12:37pm
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Asheras wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 12:09pm:
Personally, I could care less about setting.  I started playing in red box basic land (Mystara?).  Then Greyhawk.  Spent most of the first half of the 80's in Greyhawk.  Got into FR in late 80's.  But also did a lot of GM created campaign worlds.  FR was fine, though.  When I first tried DDO, I was like "What's Eberron?"  I didn't have any PnP exposure to it.  I'm not a huge fan of steampunk/tech mixed with fantasy/medieval settings.  But it was fine.  I mostly ignored warforged and had a great time.


Well, been there done that, still have the Rule Cyclopaedia and most of the B/X/CM/M/IM modules... Played mainly in Mystara/Knownworld/Hollow World, Faerun, Oerth and Dragonlance.
( for (A)D&D Settings )

Forked to Endor ( Middle Earth, not the jungle moon ) early with MERP ( got everything on that except Palantir Quest ) which led to Rolemaster and the derivatives thereof... and the barely known setting tied to Rolemaster : Shadow World. Spent a lot of time playing Rolemaster in various settings, up to and including Faerun ). Played also with French Specific settings ( Laelith for example )
Did some Serious Shadowrun, Mechwarrior ( the BattleTech RPG ) and much much more.... you don't want to know about Animonde or Féérie, or Légendes....

Eberron came late, and we barely played with it as we had several campaigns running at the same time at that point. But the concept of the world has some appeal ( sorry biased here, Shadow World is also post apocalyptic ( 12000 years + , with some steampunk hints and more )

Skoodge wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 4:09pm:
And I think people really overlook how damaging the enhancement pass was.


Enhancement Crash was a nightmare... it drove lots of people away because they forced players to rebuild their characters.... instead of fitting the existing enhancements into a tree format.
( as I shown at that time with the cleric tree it could be done ). From there they could have added all the trees they wanted, but people would have kept their working character without having to go through a forced full respec. ( and in a lot of cases a LR or a TR along the way )

and Hi, Welcome! back Pope


  

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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #28 - Aug 1st, 2017 at 11:30pm
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I use to do lots of Epic runs, when the cap was 20, mostly pugs on my pally when we all were farming epic sands and fens and it was lots of fun even if it was a grind.

Now for me things seemed to take a turn to shit when Axer came up with the effing idea that 20 plus quest should all be EPIC quests with fucking difficulty choices of n/h/e...that kind of  made lots of peeps stop playing after the initial, its fun being able to "crush it" on hard solo.

Dunno but the constant nerfs and fucking loot system changes made lots of us say fuck it.

It's too bad Neverwinter is such shit....
« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2017 at 11:32pm by Silky »  

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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #29 - Aug 2nd, 2017 at 11:30am
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Silky wrote on Aug 1st, 2017 at 11:30pm:
It's too bad Neverwinter is such shit....

Tell me about it.

It had some neat concepts, but even combined they weren't enough to keep me occupied for more than 2 weeks (total).

I am assuming that it is also the reason that DDO can't go directly to Forgotten Realms or the Sword Coast therein...

Proprietary agreement on IP. That, and WotC wants NOTHING to do with the 3.x game systems that DDO is still using.

Maybe whoever makes the 5e version of a D&D MMO will have better luck keeping the "field" open.  Tongue
  

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HernandoCortez
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #30 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 11:42am
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I won't complain about MOTU as I think it was ok. But the last thing they've done right in the past few years was Thunderholme even though its a lagfest sometimes. Its HUGE xp with the epic necro was enough to level up kinda faster.
  
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #31 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 5:33pm
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Asheras wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 9:22am:
the change in To-Hit and AC off the D20 system and the general move away from D&D core rule set.


You say this like it's a bad thing.  When you're sitting around a table with a few friends playing pnp, you don't need to be consulting a 3 page chart for your combat results.  When a computer is handling the work, it's not only fine it is preferable.  A d20 is too small a range, especially in a game like DDO which unlike pnp goes to 11 on the plusses on stats, AC, to hit, etc. 

Quote:
Gnomework - Memiors, Good Intentions, Search and Rescue - Good loot, bad quests, except Search and Rescue.  I like that one.


I like it also.  And Good Intentions, it's just rough for a few builds because of all the animated crap.  But I'd vastly prefer that they made some quests that don't have a vanilla playability by every build in the game than not.   There's a uniqueness to GI.  I only dislike it for using the same map that they have used for what, two other quests?

Memoirs could die in a fire if it wasn't for the loots.

The rest of your post, especially the raid timers, seems spot on.
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2017 at 5:41pm by Frank »  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #32 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:10pm
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Frank wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 5:33pm:
You say this like it's a bad thing.  When you're sitting around a table with a few friends playing pnp, you don't need to be consulting a 3 page chart for your combat results.  When a computer is handling the work, it's not only fine it is preferable.  A d20 is too small a range, especially in a game like DDO which unlike pnp goes to 11 on the plusses on stats, AC, to hit, etc. 
.


My concern is not just leaving D20/ D&D, although a case could be made for handling it differently and not alienating the D&D loving core that rebel against things that separate DDO from D&D.

My concern is actually inconsistency.

Spellpower is changed before anything else.  Then, later, MP, RP, AC, PRR, MRR.

But Spell DC's stay D20.  As do saves.  And spell pen.  And tactics.  All of which could move to percentile.  Caster stat changes have a dramatically higher value than melee.  Add 4 to my strength.  It goes from 90 to 94.   I get +2 damage and +2 to hit.  Big deal.  Completely negligible.  Add +2 to my spell DC's?  Hellz yeah!  That is a 10% increase in spell effectiveness.  No matter how high my casting stat is.  +2 to damage is not going to be 10% more effective for a melee or ranged.  Past level 1.  (if then) 

Spell crits are percentile, but melee/ranged crits are D20.  Even though the to-hit/AC system left D20 long ago.  That is inconsistent.

Spell crit multiplier is percentile.  Melee is x2, x3, etc.  Inconsistent.  You lose the ability to have smaller tweaks to the damage profile and to create build differentiation on melees and ranged without one build becoming FoTM OMG Awesome.  Because you can only expand crit ranges in 5% increments and crit damage in integer multiples.  And nothing can stack (or it is OP) and build diversity and homogenization becomes de rigueur. 

If you are leaving D20, Do so with planned implementation of a consistent system across the board.  Even if it takes a while to roll it out.  What we have is walking down the middle of the road. 

  
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #33 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:14pm
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Asheras wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 12:19pm:
The new cannith crafting and random loot progression is fine.  That it has a smooth power curve is fine.


Not really.  The new loot and cannith crafting were a huge power jump that made large amounts of named gear useless if it didn't have a unique ability on it.  And the random loot lags behind cannith crafting for some stupid reason.  You'd think that the benefit of putting the exact effects you want on an item would be enough that it didn't also need to be more powerful, but even 90+% of mastercraft items fall short of the numbers you can get on cannith gear for some dumb reason.  Even if you pay for their loot bonus potions the effects mostly fall short of cannith level, and you are still at the mercy of the rng for getting the effect you want.  So buying them is pointless.  If they wanted to sell the loot bonus pots they couldn't have made it less of a return on investment as they did.

If you've listened to the things the devs have shared across the years it really makes you wonder what kind of a system they are programming in.  Lynnabel/Silias said that updating an item was just as labor intensive as creating a new one.  WTF?  So does that mean they can't copy/edit/paste with ease?  Are they working in a GUI for Cthulhu's sake?  And even if they were, 10+ years ago, you'd think that they would have busted that shit open long ago so they could do simple things like copy/edit/paste.  You know, things that take minutes in whatever language instead of hours in a GUI.
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:15pm by Frank »  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #34 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:22pm
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Frank wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:14pm:
Not really.  The new loot and cannith crafting were a huge power jump that made large amounts of named gear useless if it didn't have a unique ability on it.  And the random loot lags behind cannith crafting for some stupid reason.  You'd think that the benefit of putting the exact effects you want on an item would be enough that it didn't also need to be more powerful, but even 90+% of mastercraft items fall short of the numbers you can get on cannith gear for some dumb reason.  Even if you pay for their loot bonus potions the effects mostly fall short of cannith level, and you are still at the mercy of the rng for getting the effect you want.  So buying them is pointless.  If they wanted to sell the loot bonus pots they couldn't have made it less of a return on investment as they did.

If you've listened to the things the devs have shared across the years it really makes you wonder what kind of a system they are programming in.  Lynnabel/Silias said that updating an item was just as labor intensive as creating a new one.  WTF?  So does that mean they can't copy/edit/paste with ease?  Are they working in a GUI for Cthulhu's sake?  And even if they were, 10+ years ago, you'd think that they would have busted that shit open long ago so they could do simple things like copy/edit/paste.  You know, things that take minutes in whatever language instead of hours in a GUI.


I think I mentioned this in that post or another.  The loot progression is smooth and I like that, but the time for this loot progression to be defined was when the cap went from 16-20.  They should have identified the progression from 16-30 and planned all gear around that.  Long term planning is needed on loot.  They need to be looking 3-5 years out.  Otherwise, they get what we have.  Loot systems that change every few updates and no consistency.

Every problem you mentions comes form developing the 16-30 loot plan 7 years later.  After you have 7 years of loot floating around out there and being deployed.  For consistency, they should make a plan to roll through every named item and update them to the current progression.   Like they did with Sharn and Red Fens. 

EDIT:  the system the did at the time didn't even make sense for 16-20.  So stats get to +6 at level 13 by going up every other level.  Then nothing from 14-19 and +7 can happen at level 20?  That makes NO sense.
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:25pm by Asheras »  
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #35 - Aug 3rd, 2017 at 7:00pm
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Asheras wrote on Aug 3rd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Add 4 to my strength.  It goes from 90 to 94.   I get +2 damage and +2 to hit.  Big deal.  Completely negligible.  Add +2 to my spell DC's?  Hellz yeah!  That is a 10% increase in spell effectiveness.  No matter how high my casting stat is.  +2 to damage is not going to be 10% more effective for a melee or ranged.  Past level 1.  (if then) 


Kinda.  What they've done with spell saves is to jack them up in newer content.  So your DC caster who gets a shiny new +2 DC is going to coast the old stuff, but still struggle in the new stuff.  Which is horrible game design, but that's how they have done it.

They need to bite the bullet and move away from the d20 for saves as well.  Cue the "But that's not like pnp!" crowd on the forums, who seem to have a set of nuclear proof blinders for how far the game is already not like pnp.
  

No, let me be Frank.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 12:39pm:
I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive.


Smart players know how to use buyback.

Digimonk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2016 at 1:58pm:
I will not chone.

I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect.


Smart people don't elicit "side effects."  They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #36 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 9:14am
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Looks like I am finished with the game.  Just thought I would share.

I just lost interest in the game after 10 years, which probably means the grind got to me.  I  check the weekly sales and that is it, I grabbed the RepairAll and logged out.
  
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #37 - Oct 3rd, 2017 at 9:52am
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Head-Meat wrote on Jul 31st, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Don't be so sure. He pulled a random months ago with no second post... He's a shifty one.


EDIT:

This account last post:


Other account was used in late 2015.

I'm starting to think he and Hordo are one in the same Grin
  
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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #38 - Oct 3rd, 2017 at 1:45pm
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Strake wrote on Oct 3rd, 2017 at 9:52am:
I'm starting to think he and Hordo are one in the same Grin


Nope. I don't pike, but I do randomly stop playing in the middle of quests if I get distracted by work or something shiny nearby.

Hordo doesn't just randomly wander off in the middle of the quests, but he's the best piker in the game.

(Hi, everybody!)
  

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Re: What the hell happened between MoTU and DD?
Reply #39 - Oct 3rd, 2017 at 1:48pm
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In all seriousness, I do check the Vault for DDO stuff, but I know my self control is mediocre (at best), so I try not to spend much time here so I don't accidentally get pulled into a pit of negativity and bickering.
  

fnord
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