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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Dual Shooter crap (Read 10669 times)
Petik
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Dual Shooter crap
Apr 4th, 2019 at 6:11am
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Ok so i tried new inquisitive tree everyone is hyped about.
Dual Shooter talent seems like total crap to me. The reload annimation takes ages with those 2 hand xbows.
I tested it and it seems you actually fire LESS projectiles over time with that talent compared to simply firing 1 standard nonrepeating xbox. Not even mentioning the looooooong delay between shots is super annoyng.

Is there something im missing or is it really that bad ?
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 6:22am
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No, its really that bad.  I was watching a guy running a dual shooter and it was painfully slow.  Attack speed is just bad.  It might not be so bad if you take all the ranged feats, but if you do that you're better off with a repeater or great xbow.
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #2 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 8:18am
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I don't know. I wouldn't discount Inquisitive.

I am an average player, I had an abandoned first life lvl 11 alt with random levels in Paladin, Ranger, and Artificer. I LRed to pick up max int and some dex for feats. I crafted an ML10 heavy crossbow and leveling was super easy (joining random elite-r1/r2/r3 pugs). And surprisingly it's really decent damage.

I expected the character will really start to suck at 20 (starting with epic destinies from scratch after all). Yet still when I joined a pug for epic reaper at 21 (Sentinels, VoNs) I pretty much managed to keep up with the group. Obviously the character is just not complex (no useful heals, bad umd, low hp, etc.) but the DPS is very decent. Particularly considering that my not-exactly-synergetic split (8 levels of paladin duh).
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #3 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 8:25am
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Inq is top tier if you’re not an autist and actually take the required feats. Reroll irl please
  

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 31st, 2020 at 7:26pm:
pretty dope shit. congratz. i take it back.


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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #4 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:04pm
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the_biggest_dog wrote on Apr 4th, 2019 at 8:25am:
Inq is top tier if you’re not an autist and actually take the required feats. Reroll irl please


Ive got both rapid reload and rapid shot. Not sure what other feats could change reload time mister clever.

The problem is according to my testing dual shoter makes you shot more than 2x slower.
So it shots 2 projectiles with one shot but the speed of shooting is <50%. ending with less shots per time.

Outside of endless fusilade/no holds barred i dont see any positives to that enhancement.
Please tell me where im wrong or what other feats you talking about then im happy to reroll irl Shocked
  
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Technomage
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #5 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:23pm
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Petik wrote on Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:04pm:
Ive got both rapid reload and rapid shot. Not sure what other feats could change reload time mister clever.


Do you also have Blinding Speed? How about one of the Inquisitor's Path enhancements?
  

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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #6 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:38pm
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I was doing heroic GH at R3 two days ago with a guildie who was running rogue inquisitive. Stuff was dead by the time I got to it. And I have Sprint boosts. Just saying..
« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:39pm by NotATurbineEmploye »  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #7 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:51pm
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Petik wrote on Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:04pm:
Ive got both rapid reload and rapid shot. Not sure what other feats could change reload time mister clever

30% alacrity in t5 there wise guy
« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2019 at 10:15pm by the_biggest_dog »  

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 31st, 2020 at 7:26pm:
pretty dope shit. congratz. i take it back.


al ca mist
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #8 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 7:52pm
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Maybe it's like leveling a thrower... You want to slit your wrists. But it caps nicely?
  


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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #9 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 10:09pm
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the_biggest_dog wrote on Apr 4th, 2019 at 1:51pm:
30% alacricity in t5 there wise guy

Does that stack with the 22% haste-type increase from Blinding Speed or are they both “Alacrity” bonus so that they don’t stack?

I ask because the 22% bonus shows up in the Ranged Attack Speed increase part of the character sheet but the 30% speed increase from the T5 Inquisitor’s Path enhancements don’t.
  

Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.

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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #10 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 10:14pm
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Technomage wrote on Apr 4th, 2019 at 10:09pm:
Does that stack with the 22% haste-type increase from Blinding Speed or are they both “Alacrity” bonus so that they don’t stack?

I ask because the 22% bonus shows up in the Ranged Attack Speed increase part of the character sheet but the 30% speed increase from the T5 Inquisitor’s Path enhancements don’t.


they definitely stack, similar to TA staff speed increase and mech attack speed increase it doesn't show in the character sheet.
  

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 31st, 2020 at 7:26pm:
pretty dope shit. congratz. i take it back.


al ca mist
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Rubbinns
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #11 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 2:28am
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the_biggest_dog wrote on Apr 4th, 2019 at 10:14pm:
they definitely stack, similar to TA staff speed increase and mech attack speed increase it doesn't show in the character sheet.

Fusillade is only affected by Reloader's 30% alacrity. I tested Volley and bolts fired from a stack of 500 every time per charge. On a zero doubleshot base using Mech tier 5 for Reloader. Things like Tenser and Blinding Speed had no discernible effect on the amount of bolts fired.

60 bolts fired per Fusillade charge using Volley on a capped character.
Nothing changed this rate, from speed items, speed feats, tenser, etc.

88 bolts fired per Fusillade charge using Volley with Reloader.

I have not tested Inquisitive and light and heavy crossbows for bolts fired with Fusillade.
  

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I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #12 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 2:49am
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Running an Aasimar FvS dual shooter right now and I find it very strong.  I have zero problems with my firing animation time and find it to be quicker than a ranger using a bow for sure.  Perhaps different races are getting different firing speeds?  I don't feel like it's slow at all and I don't even have the 30% alacrity yet. I just in no way am seeing "2 times slower" firing rate.  Not even close.

Just farmed up a Ratcatcher from Threnal (took me 6 fucking tries).  I am level 8 right now and the fucking crit profile is 17-20x3.  Once I get improved crit that will go to 15-20x3.  Once I get to level 12 and get the 4th core that will go to 14-20x4. I mean wtf I feel like I'm shooting a fucking Howitzer right now at a measly 17-20x3. Just imagine if you were a barb.




  
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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #13 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:53am
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Weel i tested it again on midlvl toon (fresh iconic lvl 15 BAB 12) and it seems thers no problem at all and it actually fires pretty fast even without that T5 talents.

My initial testing was while leveling lowlvl halfling (BAB 4) where it is reeeeeeeeeeeeally reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally slow.

Maybe the problem is some halfling race bug. Or maybe at some specific BAB it suddenly starts reloading 2x faster.
I will test it more today at home.
  
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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #14 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 1:32pm
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Well i did some tests and it seems its only my main whats bugged.
Other test toons i rolled (even with lower level, no equip, lower BAB) have attack speed OK.
My toon does like 5 attacks in same time frame other toon does 10 attacks.
I did even tested him naked with all active pastlives turned off to rule out some bug with pasts/equip .. nothing helps Sad
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #15 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 2:52pm
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Well at least you know now that you're not crazy with you complaining about the attack speed and everyone else telling you it's fine lol.

I about got snotty with you then realized, "Hey wait is it more likely that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about or that SSG fucked up somehow."  Then I realized the obvious answer that SSG fucked up somehow.
  
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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #16 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:14pm
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Yeah and ingame support closed ticked "we cant help you make bug report please" obviously.
So i made bug report and if we are lucky we get something about it relnotes around xmass Cheesy
So i changed my build to include 6 fighter levels (making it gimp somehow but not that mutch gimp compared to current state) because that critprofile on nonrepeating/nongreat xbows is pretty mutch useless without that working dualwield imho Cheesy
« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:15pm by Petik »  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #17 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:45pm
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Petik wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:14pm:
Yeah and ingame support closed ticked "we cant help you make bug report please" obviously.
So i made bug report and if we are lucky we get something about it relnotes around xmass Cheesy
So i changed my build to include 6 fighter levels (making it gimp somehow but not that mutch gimp compared to current state) because that critprofile on nonrepeating/nongreat xbows is pretty mutch useless without that working dualwield imho Cheesy


That is odd. I had something similar occur on lama. The first preview I managed 21-23 seconds on a dual xbow build in LD. The 2nd lama preview I only managed to get 31-33. Which is around 50% less...

I figured they stealth nerfed something, because I did not bother measuring firing rates with the weapon. But no matter what I did my Fusillade times were around 10 seconds worse from earlier tests, managing only 32 averages on lama preview #2 instead of the 22 averages from preview #1.

« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:45pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #18 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 5:37pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 4:45pm:
That is odd. I had something similar occur on lama. The first preview I managed 21-23 seconds on a dual xbow build in LD. The 2nd lama preview I only managed to get 31-33. Which is around 50% less...

I figured they stealth nerfed something, because I did not bother measuring firing rates with the weapon. But no matter what I did my Fusillade times were around 10 seconds worse from earlier tests, managing only 32 averages on lama preview #2 instead of the 22 averages from preview #1.


Nah you would definittely noticed what i am experiencing. My reload time is literally about 2 sec per 1 reload and it looks like my toon is on some serious hard drugs doing it Cheesy
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #19 - Apr 5th, 2019 at 6:16pm
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Petik wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
Nah you would definittely noticed what i am experiencing. My reload time is literally about 2 sec per 1 reload and it looks like my toon is on some serious hard drugs doing it Cheesy

I used timed dps tests to see what I could reach, 10 seconds is noticeable.

You should time bolts fired since you are on the build and have iconic tester rolled already.

Stack of 500 scrolled/cast

0 doubleshot items or AP and toggle off past life, swap out feat if epic.

Fusillade times with Reloader 30% then count bolts left on stack of 500 starting bolts.

Do it for non-fusillade times and test for Reloader, Tenser and Blinding Speed or alacrity item.

You're still heroic so Tenser and alacrity items + Reloader and compare that your bugged character to see just how many less bolts you fire. The data will help the devs. You can PM Lynn on mobos or start a thread. I read you had sent a bug report. 

This will help devs see just how off the timing is. They fixed the slow down on VKF down pointed daggers style a while ago, so this is something they can nab if they know more. You would be able to provide firing rates and discrepancies accurately. And am sure many would like the info from doing so if you posted it.


« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2019 at 6:17pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #20 - Apr 6th, 2019 at 2:41pm
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Did some tests with 15 sec time frame character 8 BAB, rapid reload, rapid shot, 2doubleshot(from guildship)
all scenarios 3x for error/mistake checking
scenarios and number of shots :
1 xbow
0 alacrity    -> 18, 18, 19
15 alacrity    -> 18, 20, 20
end. fusilate  -> 40, 40, 38
15 alac.+ fus  -> 42, 40, 42

2 xbows (with inquisitive)
0 alacrity    -> 16, 17, 16
15 alacrity    -> 18, 19, 18
end. fusilate  -> 58, 55, 54
15 alac.+ fus  -> 58, 58, 58

Observation -> with inquisitive 2xbow talent i get less shots fired outside of fusilade.
The problem is probably only the extremely long reload (as i thought initially) because with fusilade it almost 50% more shots instead.

« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2019 at 3:05pm by Petik »  
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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #21 - Apr 6th, 2019 at 5:53pm
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OMG im soo unlucky. It seems only Halfling Males have this bug .. whitch is fcking exactly what i have on this life Shocked
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #22 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:50am
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Petik wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 5:53pm:
OMG im soo unlucky. It seems only Halfling Males have this bug .. whitch is fcking exactly what i have on this life Shocked


So, what you're saying is Gnome should be safe, right? 😀
  

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Petik
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #23 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 9:10am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Apr 8th, 2019 at 7:50am:
So, what you're saying is Gnome should be safe, right? 😀


I would never ever say ".... should be safe ...." in relation to DDO Cheesy

What i can say is ... as far as i know at this point in time there is known bug with halfling male Wink
  
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Re: Dual Shooter crap
Reply #24 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 3:14pm
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Ulysses wrote on Apr 5th, 2019 at 2:49am:
Perhaps different races are getting different firing speeds? 


This right here. This is veteran status. Knowing without looking, I mean.

IDK how well the old Adam Sandler albums from the late 90's hold up, but I remember a bit where somebody said, "Fatty McGee, did you take the stairs again?" They already knew the answer. They heard him wheezing towards them.

"Fatty McSSG, did you bork one race's animation?"

  
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