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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life (Read 13911 times)
Toke
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #75 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 11:14am
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Few lives ago, was on a barbearian build and was tanking fatty on elite without much trouble.  DPS wasn't top tier, but was able to solo r3 schtuff without having to use the emergency hire.  As was mentioned, flavorful, pretty fun.  I especially lived for the feather falling drop bear.
  

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Rubbinns
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #76 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 12:54pm
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Edrein wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 5:47am:
"They don't work with wolf abominations." but they forgot bears exist so they're getting the proverbial shaft in the process.

Seems like it is too much work for SSG to reign in broken wolves.

There is no reason to play a Barb, or anything that rages, and there is no reason to play anything that uses THF weapons. Wolf gets every thing you want from those other builds + more.

They attack faster than any THF'ing build does, even if the THF'er is twitching. And ofc wolves can twitch too, because why not. Except there is no penalty on wolves for not knowing how to twitch. You get the same results if you spaz like a nut, as you would from knowing the timing, because wolf twitch animation is only one single animation. No matter how, where or when you move, you cannot fuck it up.
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2019 at 12:56pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #77 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 1:35pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 12:54pm:
There is no reason to play a Barb, or anything that rages, and there is no reason to play anything that uses THF weapons. Wolf gets every thing you want from those other builds + more.

Ever thought that some like to play what they want and not interested in exploity shit everytime they update natural fighting builds or whatever ?
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #78 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 4:38pm
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Wipe wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 1:35pm:
Ever thought that some like to play what they want and not interested in exploity shit everytime they update natural fighting builds or whatever ?

Plenty of people will and do. From a balance perspective it becomes unfair that a wolf can grab what ever tier 5 it wants, use Blackrazor or Slyvanus, and still have 15% or 30% attack rate. 15% speed alone probably can out-dps any THF barb or kensei. It isn't even close at 30%. Relatively it's an outlandish chasm.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #79 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 5:02pm
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The problem is dps is really the only metric that matters in ddo, there isn't an effective active tanking strategy like in most MMOs. So your Bear form can't do shit more than any other tank and just soak damage and wait for appropriate heals, and when Wolf form can just annihilate the mobs it just doesn't feel fun to play tank anymore for questing at least.
  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #80 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 5:38pm
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Quote:
The problem is dps is really the only metric that matters in ddo, there isn't an effective active tanking strategy like in most MMOs. So your Bear form can't do shit more than any other tank and just soak damage and wait for appropriate heals, and when Wolf form can just annihilate the mobs it just doesn't feel fun to play tank anymore for questing at least.


Bear tanks are closer to other mmo tanks than non bear tanks. Their abiity to both intimidate and turtle, or massive hate gen through attacking is incredibly useful.

at least now that they can actually wear the right gear.
  

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Derp derp derp derp. Yellow moons. Lassie.

Hordo wrote on Nov 21st, 2012 at 8:07am:
EDIT: BTW I love your post.  It reads as if English is your 3rd language behind gibberish and dipshit.


majmalphunktion wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 6:11pm:
what the fuck guys...

Jeesus fucking shit. This shit gets me called to the principals office.

Assholes.
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Gramh_the_Bard
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #81 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 5:40pm
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ah, i assumed that all tanking was just turtling because of the blocking absorption because literally every boss chucks out huge elemental damage.
  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #82 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 5:58pm
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Toke wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 11:14am:
I especially lived for the feather falling drop bear.

Requires verification from an independent, neutral third party, such as dropb-

Wait.
  

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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #83 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:50pm
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                                                        Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy 
   I feel like I keep being beaten with a nerf bat in an attempt to force me to play builds that I don't want to play. I give up. You win SSGs.  I'm TRing all my builds into Inquisitive Ice Sorcerers with extra strap ons.  I mean rune arms.   
                                                       Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy   

                                   Cry Cry
  

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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #84 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 6:08am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 4:38pm:
Plenty of people will and do. From a balance perspective it becomes unfair that a wolf can grab what ever tier 5 it wants, use Blackrazor or Slyvanus, and still have 15% or 30% attack rate. 15% speed alone probably can out-dps any THF barb or kensei. It isn't even close at 30%. Relatively it's an outlandish chasm.   


You'd sure as shit think they'd have realized that was the problem during the redesign phase of the forms where they changed levels effecting movement speed.

The answer is to put wolf attack speed in the cores to stagger it out.

5% at level 3, 10% at 6, 15% at 12, 20% at 18, and 30% in the capstone.

Or if that progression is too much. Put the basic wolf form at 5% attack speed. Bump that by 5% at core 6. Then the Winter Wolf gets 15% base attack speed. That speed increases to 20% at core 12. Slap the final 10% attack speed into either a T5 or into the later cores.


Basically what I'm saying is a little touch up to fix wolves and how they multiclass would solve all of the issues towards balancing wildshapes in general.

Either way; if a bear druid is running in fury by virtual of the Natural Fighting feats they should benefit from the new THF boosting stuff. Hell, make it required that they use a two handed weapon, but jesus christ don't exclude druids because of wolf-splashes.
  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #85 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 6:13am
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Cripey wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 5:38pm:
Bear tanks are closer to other mmo tanks than non bear tanks. Their abiity to both intimidate and turtle, or massive hate gen through attacking is incredibly useful.

at least now that they can actually wear the right gear.


You're definitely right about this. There's a problem with this though; because the bear tree is pretty schizo. You've got the rage DPS line and then you've got the tank line. Then you've got every ability that deals DPS also adding hate and threat gen.

Sure bears in general are tanky; even tankier than barbarians to an extent. But I sure as shit don't enjoy trying to make any sort of raging bear DPS build work when I know for a fact I'm going to probably pull aggro because someone thought that multi-selector options for bears was a bad idea. Maybe the changes to US might make bears less prone to pulling aggro away from tanks but I doubt it.
  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #86 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 12:36pm
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Edrein wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 6:13am:
You're definitely right about this. There's a problem with this though; because the bear tree is pretty schizo. You've got the rage DPS line and then you've got the tank line. Then you've got every ability that deals DPS also adding hate and threat gen.

Sure bears in general are tanky; even tankier than barbarians to an extent. But I sure as shit don't enjoy trying to make any sort of raging bear DPS build work when I know for a fact I'm going to probably pull aggro because someone thought that multi-selector options for bears was a bad idea. Maybe the changes to US might make bears less prone to pulling aggro away from tanks but I doubt it.


Just let the bear tank, 5-6 k hps - 350 mrr , shit tons of hamp etc etc
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2019 at 12:37pm by Cripey »  

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Derp derp derp derp. Yellow moons. Lassie.

Hordo wrote on Nov 21st, 2012 at 8:07am:
EDIT: BTW I love your post.  It reads as if English is your 3rd language behind gibberish and dipshit.


majmalphunktion wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 6:11pm:
what the fuck guys...

Jeesus fucking shit. This shit gets me called to the principals office.

Assholes.
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Edrein
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #87 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:05pm
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Cripey wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 12:36pm:
Just let the bear tank, 5-6 k hps - 350 mrr , shit tons of hamp etc etc


Yeah, but not every bear is trying to tank.

That's the fundamental design flaw with the bear tree and changes to natural fighting. They finally gave us a chance to do more than just tank with a bear; and frankly put bear is arguably the best THF currently even though their glancing blows are less damage than other THFers.

The issue is no other THF class/tree/build have fucking hate and threat baked into their damage abilities. Making Savage Roar operate off casting Roar was thematic... But kind of ass for the use of using it as both CC and damage. Making Beast Unleashed apply 50% threat increase if you're in bear form is another fuck you to non-tank bears. Do I want to give up 25 melee power, hell no, so I've got no choice but to use it. Lightning Strikes the Mountain is again another 100% threat for 15 seconds.

Really outside of Savage Roar everything in the bear tree could have had a multiselector for: Tank or DPS. Mind the pun; but it's bear fucking minimal work they had to put in to make things better.
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:06pm by Edrein »  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #88 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 8:15pm
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It is another great example of SSG's mastery of irony.
That a character in the shape of a bear, four times the size of a half orc should generate more aggro with an attack seems so consistent with how things should work, yet so inconsistent with a world where a crossbow splits into two to be fired from each hand whilst wielding a runearm!
  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #89 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 10:20pm
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I split your mom in two.

In other news, nice discussion guys.
  

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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #90 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:22pm
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Not without a large inanimate object you didn't.
  
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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #91 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 12:54am
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My penis is like an automobile
  

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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #92 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 3:02am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 12:54am:
My penis is like an automobile


I'd bet it's a Ford.
  

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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #93 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 3:04am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 12:54am:
My penis is like an automobile


Most women aren't interested?
  

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Re: Significant changes to EDs and 4th Epic Past Life
Reply #94 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 4:10am
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Or they ask, does it come in black?
  
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