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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Need a warchanter build for TN halfling (Read 11583 times)
Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #25 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 9:29pm
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Demoyn wrote on Jul 20th, 2010 at 2:33pm:
There are many reasons why people prefer warchanters over spellsingers.  I will list them:

Warchanters have higher attack and damage on their songs.

The warchanter-specific song is actually useful even to people who know how to play their characters properly (unlike spellsong).

Bard songs (other than healing and buffs) suck, so there's no reason to have a crap-ton of mana and higher spell DCs.

ALL bards can buff, so to find the best one means that you look for the one who can help when fights break out.  This means warchanters with their melee are better than spellsingers with their.... shout?

Actually, as a halfling warchanter you may want to look into being a healer.  That would allow you to both have the best buffs AND be useful when fighting breaks out.  I haven't given it much thought because it's not entirely optimal from a feat standpoint (why take power attack and weapon focus if you're not fighting), but I've seen others do it with moderate success.


yeap and the vets will try to keep as many bard levels as possible to get a better song. unfortunately many noobs are building stuff like 12/6rgr/2rog or 15/3ftr/2rog and the worst guy i see is 15/3bbn/2rog. what is worse is they come with a i do not buff others becoz my duration is short etc kind of argument. many of these are so melee oriented they do not have extend (for buffing) or more importantly, sufficient sp.

spellsingers can take a heavy repeater feat and be somewhat useful. spellsingers can also be rather decent in healing others. i've soloed heal a shroud at L16 with my spellsinger and that is without pots. as to halfing warchanters that mainly heal, these are also likely to have a higher cha for using spells like hold. heavy pick with PA = dead mob, helping the party out in non boss situations

however i agree. it depends on the playstyle
  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #26 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 9:56pm
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[quote author=1E08003C31233D3934500 link=1279562631/22#22 date=1279657622][B][U]Tsirio [/U][/B]
Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Bard) [/quote]

this is how i'd do the enhancements

Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement:  Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion I
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion II
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
  
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woody
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #27 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 11:31pm
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Demoyn wrote on Jul 20th, 2010 at 2:33pm:
Actually, as a halfling warchanter you may want to look into being a healer.  That would allow you to both have the best buffs AND be useful when fighting breaks out.  I haven't given it much thought because it's not entirely optimal from a feat standpoint (why take power attack and weapon focus if you're not fighting), but I've seen others do it with moderate success.


I actually play a bard simliar to what you are talking about. He's a thf warchanter but I dont have him specced hardcore for fighting or healing and he can still stay alive when he needs to and keep the party up when need be.

If I was going to roll another warchanter though I prolly would not take the bard lvls past 16. At that lvl your haste/displace/rage all last a decent amount of time, your normal bard songs should be at the 7 min mark, and your prestige song is about 5 min. I cant see a real bonus to staying bard past 16 if you are going to go for a hardcore melee warchanter. I could be wrong(prolly am).
  
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #28 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 9:40am
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I ugh before I even begin. But here I go.

Aranticus wrote on Jul 21st, 2010 at 9:14pm:
with a decent dex, you can even expend 1 feat to use repeaters. a lit2 heavy repeater can help the dps when you party have the required number of healers in the raid


whats wrong with halflings? which vet would roll a halfling without guile enhancements?

I didn't suggest rolling a halfling without guile enhancements did I? You made this up.


are you comparing your bard with songs vs a fighter without?

My bard without songs is comparable. With songs is only slightly behind. And I have the gear and skills to lead the kill count (fwiw, ie not much) in almost every quest in which I played him.


spellsingers (esp those that are max cha) have among the highest cc DC in the game. its spell song also increases the DC of spells. especially with epic now being nerfed (lower ac needed, lower mob saves, etc), a caster can reliably land mass hold with the help of the spellsong and also help out by fascinating mobs then dancing them
  
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Gornn
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #29 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 9:44am
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Quote:
Well?  I'm waiting for the next round of why are you building a gimp comments....


I ignored aranticus suggested enhancements, so I can't make any suggestions there, but I would fix your feats a little.

I wouldn't take power attack until level 6 (since you won't use it much at low levels anyway).

I'd take weapon focus at level 1 (to improve to hit) and extend at level 3 (it becomes useful at level 4 iirc) then power attack at 6.

I'd say extend is more useful at 3 than PA.
  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #30 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:23am
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Gornn wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 9:40am:
I didn't suggest rolling a halfling without guile enhancements did I? You made this up


no you suggested that the problem with the build is that its a halfling

Quote:
The realy problem is halfling. Optimally your bard would either be: human (khopesh specced), dwarf (axe specced), warforged (thf specced). I suppose a scimitar specced elf (though the con hit is HUGE since bards don't get that many hp to begin eith) could work as well.


you also when on to discuss about dps options with khopeshes (human for the feat), axes, scimitars or thf (racial enhancements

Quote:
My bard without songs is comparable. With songs is only slightly behind. And I have the gear and skills to lead the kill count (fwiw, ie not much) in almost every quest in which I played him.


assuming both started with 18 str and the same gear, a L12 kensai will have 18+1+3+3+5 = 30 str unbuffed, 38 with power surge. a 10brd/2ftr will be at 18+1+3+1+5 = 28 str unbuffed. the fighter will have 30% haste boost compared to your 15%. kensai. in terms of feats and enhancements, the fighter will have additional +7 damage and +4 to crit damage, whereas your song will be +6. with THF, the kensai fighter will be at +9 damage + 8 crit damage. in all the THF fighter can get to +8 damage with u have song, and +14 if you are without. yeap 40% more is comparable
  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #31 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:25am
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Gornn wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 9:44am:
I'd say extend is more useful at 3 than PA.


bards do not get L3 spells until L7 but its good for masters touch for using thf weapons
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:27am by Aranticus »  
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Eladiun
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #32 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:47am
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Aranticus wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:25am:
bards do not get L3 spells until L7 but its good for masters touch for using thf weapons



Incorrect, Master's Touch can no longer be Extended.  See what you miss by not reading the release notes, noob.   Grin

* Master's Touch can now be cast on allies as a touch ranged spell, and lasts until rest. The Extend metamagic no longer applies to the spell since it lasts until rest.
  
Nevynn wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 11:38pm:
Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment.


Calvet wrote on Oct 20th, 2011 at 12:18pm:
I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.  I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all.


Quote:
Eladiun is an awful person
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #33 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:02am
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Eladiun wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:47am:
Incorrect, Master's Touch can no longer be Extended.  See what you miss by not reading the release notes, noob.   Grin

* Master's Touch can now be cast on allies as a touch ranged spell, and lasts until rest. The Extend metamagic no longer applies to the spell since it lasts until rest.


damn, which means extend is almost useless at L3! thanks for heads up, i dun use masters touch that often now that my toons are L20 lol
  
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Gornn
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #34 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:18am
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Aranticus wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:23am:
no you suggested that the problem with the build is that its a halfling


I said it wasn't optimal. Would you like me to go back and quote myself? Oh wait, you quoted me where I said "optimally you would have gone..."

Where exactly did I suggest a halfling in this situation wasn't taking guile enhancement?

Stop making things up.


you also when on to discuss about dps options with khopeshes (human for the feat), axes, scimitars or thf (racial enhancements

You read into what I said, by what I didn't say...but that's just you making things up. Again.


assuming both started with 18 str and the same gear, a L12 kensai will have 18+1+3+3+5 = 30 str unbuffed, 38 with power surge. a 10brd/2ftr will be at 18+1+3+1+5 = 28 str unbuffed. the fighter will have 30% haste boost compared to your 15%. kensai. in terms of feats and enhancements, the fighter will have additional +7 damage and +4 to crit damage, whereas your song will be +6. with THF, the kensai fighter will be at +9 damage + 8 crit damage. in all the THF fighter can get to +8 damage with u have song, and +14 if you are without. yeap 40% more is comparable


The numbers seem farther off than I remembered; of course Kensai is newer than when I played that bard.

Of course I love DPS specced bards in a raid group.

You see what happens when you don't pull shit out of your ass and use facts instead of your opinions?

I will agree with you.

But only when you don't make things up.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:22am by Gornn »  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #35 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:27am
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now u are just back tracking, great job, keep it up  Wink
  
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #36 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:43am
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Aranticus wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:27am:
now u are just back tracking, great job, keep it up  Wink


Backtracking in what way? Now you're just trolling.

I conceded to your post that suggests a fighter has higher damage output than a bard of equivalent level.

I challenged you to quote me suggesting rolling a halfling without guile enhancements, (which you haven't done because it never happened), and continued to point out that you were making it up that I suggested not taking guile enhancements.

If conceding your point is backtracking, well, I guess that's backtracking.

But I will continue to call you out on making shit up. Or you can post a quote where I suggested rolling a halfling without guile enhancements.

Or you can continue to ignore my requests to post a quote where a halfling wasn't taking guile enhancements.

Whose backtracking now? I conceded a point to fact.

You refuse to do the same.
  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #37 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 12:00pm
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Gornn wrote on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:43am:
I challenged you to quote me suggesting rolling a halfling without guile enhancements, (which you haven't done because it never happened), and continued to point out that you were making it up that I suggested not taking guile enhancements.


i did not say you suggested rolling a halfling without guile enhancements

Quote:
The realy problem is halfling. Optimally your bard would either be: human (khopesh specced), dwarf (axe specced), warforged (thf specced). I suppose a scimitar specced elf (though the con hit is HUGE since bards don't get that many hp to begin eith) could work as well.


the way i interpreted this post is "halfling is the wrong race for a warchanter. if you want a warchanter, you take human dwarf wf or even elf"

if i'm wrong in my interpretation, then let me know what you mean
  
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #38 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 12:12pm
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Hmmm.... Now I really do have to think about spellsinger instead. I have a human bard (need to check his lvl) that I could make a WC and this guy a SS. Is heros companion really worth the aps?  T
  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #39 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 12:19pm
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Hmmm.... Now I really do have to think about spellsinger instead. I have a human bard (need to check his lvl) that I could make a WC and this guy a SS. Is heros companion really worth the aps?  T


it really depends on what party u run with and what is your playstyle. halfling comp can really help with dps tank. more damage = less time to establish firm agro ie suulomades or horoth. this means that your tank (assuming all are similarly equipped) is going to have an advantage and thus allow others to come earlier, reducing wait time. of coz, more damage is still more damage

now if your style is more of solo, wand/scroll enhancements will be of better use similar for healing bards. a cc specialist however will not be taking halfling enhancments. APs will be too tight since the cc spcialist will want to make it pass SR and this likely to have enhancemnts on spell penetration (12 APs total)
  
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Tspoon
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #40 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 12:29pm
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Ah, yes that makes sense
  
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Tspoon
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #41 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 3:24pm
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If I went the heavy repeater spellsinger route, I could start with 10 16 14 8 8 18, and follow the feat progression of the lyrical poet build, but I would need to loose one feat.  Seems like imp crit ranged would be the way to go and make a min2 heavy repeater?  Or is there a better feat to drop? T
  
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Aranticus
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Re: Need a warchanter build for TN halfling
Reply #42 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 6:18pm
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I would even forgo imp crit. There isn't really much point since repeaters do not add any stat bonus (unless mechanic) to damage so crits will be quite small in the first place. At the lower levels imp crit is useful ie banishing, wounding of puncturing. But once these effects fail to affect mobs you can throw them away. Ideally, you will be using a lit2 repeater. If you want to support the party more, then use triple earth (earth grab) or ice (freezing ice) repeaters
  
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