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Mister_Peace
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #25 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 1:01am
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If all weapons are pretty much equal, why spend the feat for bastard swords when you have tons of martial weapons to choose from?
  
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Aranticus
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #26 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 2:05am
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kitsune_ko wrote on Oct 16th, 2010 at 12:07am:
Now that the nitpicking is done if we can get to the main point? regardess if it takes 3, 5, 9 or 15 hits to kill a mob, unless you are using a weapon with a 50% critical chance or base 5d10, it is ever only a difference of a maximum of maybe one, possibly two swings depending on the mob and their HP.


and again, it depends on your definition of trash. shroud trash orthons have plently of hp. but of course, most use vorpals. you keep harping on the utility of trash mobs but skip over boss fights. ok since its only 1 attack difference for trash, why not even use longswords and save a feat?

Quote:
And finally yes I realise that blinded mobs run randomly, but then I prefer cornering one blinded mob while the others run in circles waiting their turn then knowing where all the mobs are because they are stacked 3 deep around me bending me over gangbanging my ass.


and in a bad party it works. for a good party, its added time and fustration

Quote:
But thats just my personal preference in the matter. By all means if you have a dedicated healer who likes doing nothing but feeding you HP non-stop while you do your "300" style I'll-take-you-all-on-at-once, are into being on the recieving end of some masochistic toon pain,  or just simply like occasionally being  made by several mobs their nancy-boy toon bitch, thats of course completely up to you.  Kiss


and if you think vets play this way, you must be playing a different game


Kit [/quote]
  
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Antir
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #27 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 4:22am
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kitsune_ko wrote on Oct 15th, 2010 at 7:34pm:
I knew it would come to this, and I will make it simple and use small words for you Antir this time. My main point was this: for 95% of the time, it does not matter what the hell you use for a weapon, period. Boss fights are the only time DPS counts in any meaningful way. So your weapon choice is simply that, plain player preference.

GS Dwarven Axe? dead in 3 hits.
GS Kopesh? dead in 3 hits.
GS Bastard Sword? dead in 3 hits.
GS Long Sword? dead in 3 hits.

You see the point now Antir?

There is no point arguing with you, you don't get it. Nothing of what you have said is valid.

When the average mob dies in 3-4 hits, if your using a 1d10 16-20 crit weapon, or a 2d8 18-20 crit does not matter one bloody bit Antir. Its dead within 3 swings usually anyways.

No.

So feel free to go fail yourself.

And I prefer "almost as good as" which I believe I mentioned several times, because I am a splash build, I do not want absolute maximum DPS as I find outdamaging tanks is bad for my continued health usually.

No.

I really do not see the problem with the very solid damage provided by bastard swords. Simply because its not "the best" does not mean it not still viable as a weapon choice.

Yes, but you will never understand why.

And please tell me Antir how the ability to inflict blind on multiple mobs with the bastard sword glancing blow is considered a bad thing? Or you of the "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist" Wimp Lo school of fighting Antir? Where you win because you always have the highest death count in any raid/dungeon you run?

I have the highest death count because i zerged ahead and did not die or i do not have the highest detath count because i zerged ahead and died waiting 15min for everyone else to stop farting around with stupid barrels and the wrong stupid optionals or making sure that their S&B pally/rogue is taking five min to kill each stupid monster becuase they are blocking so some idiot tank has to get the aggro back to prove that your inane bastard sword plan is working as intended. 

Just curious.


Kit

Hi Welcome
  

"I'll provide the perspective"
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Epoch
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #28 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 4:31am
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kitsune_ko wrote on Oct 16th, 2010 at 12:07am:
And again, this is why I simply love discussing things with little minds. They can see only the little things and never the retarded point one tries to make.

I love people who insist that "that third so-called tree by the rock over there is actually a shrub, so see, your wrong" it is called observation, God gave everyone the ability, use it when I am telling them we are standing in a goddam forest. I hope you do not give directions to anyone in the forest, otherwise, they are fucked

Or in this case "It takes more then 3 hits, it takes average 10.567 so anything you say after this is invalid"

It helps your point when you are accurate, it shows you know what you are talking about.

So yes, it may take more then 3 hits oh great sages you heard it here first folks, I am a sage!  of DDO, I did not make exact calculations for each mob with a hit-to-kill ratio to provide for your consideration and approval and for this you have my most sincere apologies.

No need to be rude.

Now that the nitpicking is done if we can get to the main point? regardess if it takes 3, 5, 9 or 14.1337 hits to kill a mob, unless you are using a weapon with a 50% critical chance or base 5d10, it is ever only a difference of a maximum of maybe one, possibly two swings depending on the mob and their HP.

So how come you are not dual wielding light hammers or clubs? Oh, right...

Epics obviously excluded as I was specifically talking trash mobs not red named, immune to everything epic minions. Epic runs are a completely different animal then any other quest/raid.

Epic trash mobs, are still trash mobs.  Different animal, yet many of them are soloed easier then a raid.  Failed point for you.

For those who live, eat and breathe nothing but their DPS stats this difference is probably noticible with trash mobs, but for most of us, it is not. Nor do we honestly care, 9 hits, 10, or 11, when it dies we go onto the next trash mob. That is why after Lv 16 not every char, every class, every build is using nothing but GS kopeshes.

It is noticeable by you, it is the reason why you say, "wow, look at that guys DPS, it is impressive".  It is because we are free from the bounds of how great something looks and are more concerned with effectiveness.

And finally yes I realise that blinded mobs run randomly, but then I prefer cornering one blinded mob while the others run in circles waiting their turn then knowing where all the mobs are because they are stacked 3 deep around me bending me over gangbanging my ass.

Then quit grabbing more mobs then you can handle, mr. sword and board tank that does not know the first rule of tanking.

But thats just my personal preference in the matter. By all means if you have a dedicated healer who likes doing nothing but feeding you HP non-stop while you do your "300" style I'll-take-you-all-on-at-once, are into being on the recieving end of some masochistic toon pain,  or just simply like occasionally being  made by several mobs their nancy-boy toon bitch, thats of course completely up to you.  Kiss

A good divine caster (see  how I dont generalize them?) will throw in CC or a BB. 

Different playing styles for different players I suppose.

Effective VS. Retarded right? You should learn how to play.

Kit


Aranticus wrote on Oct 16th, 2010 at 2:05am:
and again, it depends on your definition of trash. shroud trash orthons have plently of hp. but of course, most use vorpals. you keep harping on the utility of trash mobs but skip over boss fights. ok since its only 1 attack difference for trash, why not even use longswords and save a feat?


and in a bad party it works. for a good party, its added time and fustration


and if you think vets play this way, you must be playing a different game


Kit


Vorpals suck, Stunning blow bitches!!

  

OnePercenter wrote on May 15th, 2014 at 9:41am:
I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.  #epochsfamiliarFTW

Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 2:09am:
It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity.
Even against donuts.
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Emili
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #29 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 9:31am
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kitsune_ko wrote on Oct 15th, 2010 at 7:34pm:
I knew it would come to this, and I will make it simple and use small words for you Antir this time. My main point was this: for 95% of the time, it does not matter what the hell you use for a weapon, period. Boss fights are the only time DPS counts in any meaningful way. So your weapon choice is simply that, plain player preference.

GS Dwarven Axe? dead in 3 hits.
GS Kopesh? dead in 3 hits.
GS Bastard Sword? dead in 3 hits.
GS Long Sword? dead in 3 hits.

You see the point now Antir?

Noone care how long it takes a melee to kill trash ... especially when the more efficient way is to have the caster do it in one spell and kill a group of mob with 30-40 sp. Ten mob ... 3 hits = 15 seconds ... casters on same ten = 1 or 2 seconds.

People do not think much about it all but there are reasons Harry and many bosses (and epic mob) have a ton of HP - it's to make a melee character "useful". Without the inflation, high saves, immunities of certain mob melee would be worthless in quest - "pikers."


Back when Orchard first came out ... I posted - turbine wtf?" You see melee were looked upon as "pikers." Every Orchard quests LFM looked like "cleric + sorc/wiz" and melee were taken along only when they figured they had enoough mana in the group to take someone who contributed next to "nothing." Only the people who knew nothing allowed melee into quests like "Vol, Inferno, Fleshmakers, GoP and litany" ... GoP being the worst.

People solo vale quests on any wf wiz, cleric or sorc at level... melee in group often slow them down. Come Armath and they started to complain because they were forced into a back seat themselves.

A 400dps melee produces half the time a 200dps melee utilizes... compound that by four or five and the numbers sway truer.

There is a difference between a half round Harry vs a two round Harry. There is a difference when sulu is dead in two min then in three minutes in ToD and alrger difference between Epic Vellah dying in three or four passes between breaths vs five.

When I run with prophets the group is usually so heavy that I can run "my" melee full out "DPS" instead of bulking up HP or saves or even resists... take shroud for instance. I actually replace my Knost belt with Ravager and garner more DPS, We only take minimum (fire, FoM and poison) add rage and possibly a bard song - given on the fly as we're already fight - no stopping to buff at all... part two we just kill - no prepping - part 4 Harry is dead in half a round and part five last less than two minutes total. Most the time is in part one and three ... and 12-18 min shroud ... loot grab the next level 20 in your account and repeat - four shrouds less than an hour sometimes five. True of ToD, Epic Dragon, Epic DQ also.

Note to self... the last failed ToD was because I placed a healing amp tank on Sulu - the rest of the melee then had to downgrade to prevent agro switching as much (increasing time to kill) the mana reserves and time increase allot also meant I was tanking Horoth two minutes longer than I should have (dealing with more disintigrates and spell damage and badge damage) been and that those assigned to clean up trash had to deal with "Eight" more waves of spawning Orthons <- yes you got that right.
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2010 at 10:22am by Emili »  

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Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aimé et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.

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Aranticus
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #30 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 9:56am
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Epoch wrote on Oct 16th, 2010 at 4:31am:
Vorpals suck, Stunning blow bitches!!



I dual wield vorpal scimitars of enfeebling with force crit rituals Grin
  
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scraap
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #31 - Oct 16th, 2010 at 10:17am
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Aranticus wrote on Oct 16th, 2010 at 9:56am:
I dual wield vorpal scimitars of enfeebling with force crit rituals Grin


Why for you hurted scrappy's brain? Scrappy was using those brain cells.... Scrappy roll barbar now.
  
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Re: The bastard sword question.
Reply #32 - Jun 28th, 2017 at 5:55pm
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No dumbass, they're mediocre. Most of the people have about 6 int in real life and chew rather than playing.
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