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Clonks and Clogues? (Read 2831 times)

MartinusWyllt Ex Member	Clonks and Clogues? Nov 19^th, 2010 at 9:11pm	Print Post
	I've read a lot of builds. Generally seems to be at 17/18 cleric with monk or rogue. With a 16 int human rogue skills look workable, too. The Valiance build looked interesting as well. Do these builds play well without lots of gear? (I figure the main factor is player experience, but does it get unrealistic without lots of twinking?)


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Alekx VoD Slasher Offline Argonnessen Posts: 1895 Location: NYC Joined: Aug 21^st, 2009	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #1 - Nov 19^th, 2010 at 10:22pm	Print Post
	Quote: I've read a lot of builds. Generally seems to be at 17/18 cleric with monk or rogue. With a 16 int human rogue skills look workable, too. The Valiance build looked interesting as well. Do these builds play well without lots of gear? (I figure the main factor is player experience, but does it get unrealistic without lots of twinking?) I played with Valiance as he started up that build, although gear is a major factor, it works extremely well. Just need to grind out some key items to make it shine. PM him if you are interested, he is a really nice and helpful guy.

	~ Pure Life ~ Argonnessen ~
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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #2 - Dec 2^nd, 2010 at 4:47pm	Print Post
	I'd argue the FvS is a better fit for these kind of builds. The massive amounts of SP that an FvS gets overcomes the lack of SP you have in losing 2-3 casting class levels. My 18/2 FvS/Monk has 2583 sp at cap. I tried to make a Clogue work several times and always ended up rerolling because it felt too strained. They are both certainly do-able, I just like the FvS better.


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Combat Wombat Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 334 Joined: Aug 28^th, 2010	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #3 - Dec 5^th, 2010 at 4:13am	Print Post
	18/2 clonk is the way to go 2 levels of monk gives you evasion and 2 feats and being a cleric keeps you from being a gimpo caster and you get RS. If you are worried about the difference between 1800 and 2500 sp it may be best if you just go back to being a barbarian. Granted my experience is with a fully geared 36pt build so results may vary but if you've played for any amount of time then major mem pots are meaningless so why gimp your toon for some sp you can get by chugging an extra pot now and then?


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Pallai Stormreaver Piker Offline Keeper of the Rangersauce Posts: 745 Joined: Aug 14^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #4 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 2:23am	Print Post
	Clonks are generally gear intensive, but really rewarding, IMO. My main is an 18/2 Clonk OCC/Healer- I honestly wouldn't recommend doing it without gear from a previous Cleric life, but that's just me. If you want more input, just let me know- I can post her stats, gear, etc.

	Pallai, Ascent Saraphima, Chennai, Northenstar, Chellai Nothing Personal Argonessen
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Emili Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1241 Location: here Joined: Jun 30^th, 2009	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #5 - Jan 20^th, 2011 at 4:54am	Print Post
	Combat Wombat wrote on Dec 5^th, 2010 at 4:13am: 18/2 clonk is the way to go 2 levels of monk gives you evasion and 2 feats and being a cleric keeps you from being a gimpo caster and you get RS. If you are worried about the difference between 1800 and 2500 sp it may be best if you just go back to being a barbarian. Granted my experience is with a fully geared 36pt build so results may vary but if you've played for any amount of time then major mem pots are meaningless so why gimp your toon for some sp you can get by chugging an extra pot now and then? I think Vel missed a large point about FvS/Monk(Rogue). Is not so much the SP, also spell selection not quite as varied as a cleric but the character in question is far sturdier... plus they're a ton quicker and can keep up with the barb and monks. ... the synergies between the two fit far easier than a Cleric/Monk(Rogue) build ... FVS have better saves (particulalry reflex save to marry with evasion), topped off with dr, generally higher hp and many of the class enhancements support both classes going hand in hand. FvS/monk is an easier build for desired results and tweakable via enhancements in many cases.
	« Last Edit: Jan 20^th, 2011 at 5:06am by Emili »
	\|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \| IMaj7 vim7 \| iim7 V13 \|III7+� VI9 \| iim9� V13 \|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \|IMaj7 vim7 \|iim7 V13 \|I6� ivm7� bVII9 \|I69� �\| Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aim� et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.
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Combat Wombat Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 334 Joined: Aug 28^th, 2010	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #6 - Jan 20^th, 2011 at 9:05am	Print Post
	Emili wrote on Jan 20^th, 2011 at 4:54am: I think Vel missed a large point about FvS/Monk(Rogue). Is not so much the SP, also spell selection not quite as varied as a cleric but the character in question is far sturdier... plus they're a ton quicker and can keep up with the barb and monks. ... the synergies between the two fit far easier than a Cleric/Monk(Rogue) build ... FVS have better saves (particulalry reflex save to marry with evasion), topped off with dr, generally higher hp and many of the class enhancements support both classes going hand in hand. FvS/monk is an easier build for desired results and tweakable via enhancements in many cases. fvs have better reflex saves but thats it will/fort are the same as a cleric, you don't get any dr as a anything splashed with a fvs and have exactly the same hit die as a cleric. On a cleric you get all your level 6 spells slots and if you want to be anything but a healbot that comes in handy also as a cleric/monk at least the 18/2 route you still get 3 lvl 9 spell slots that way you can heal,mass and res people at full hp so they dont insta die in high damage situations. Also with cleric you are able to totally dumpstat charisma and spend it on more useful and interesting things like con, strength and dex(I assume you've already maxed wis ). Also as I said you get radiant servant which I can't overstate the usefulness of being able to fully heal a quest with no sp used or keep hp up for that ranged challenged group in edq that can't seem to get the queen to drop the first time.. or being able to fully heal the party inside an anti-magic field while removing negative levels and stat damage while dealing upto 2k damage a pop to any doomspheres and may be bothering you


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Emili Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1241 Location: here Joined: Jun 30^th, 2009	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #7 - Jan 20^th, 2011 at 10:43pm	Print Post
	Combat Wombat wrote on Jan 20^th, 2011 at 9:05am: fvs have better reflex saves but thats it will/fort are the same as a cleric, you don't get any dr as a anything splashed with a fvs and have exactly the same hit die as a cleric. On a cleric you get all your level 6 spells slots and if you want to be anything but a healbot that comes in handy also as a cleric/monk at least the 18/2 route you still get 3 lvl 9 spell slots that way you can heal,mass and res people at full hp so they dont insta die in high damage situations. Also with cleric you are able to totally dumpstat charisma and spend it on more useful and interesting things like con, strength and dex(I assume you've already maxed wis ). Also as I said you get radiant servant which I can't overstate the usefulness of being able to fully heal a quest with no sp used or keep hp up for that ranged challenged group in edq that can't seem to get the queen to drop the first time.. or being able to fully heal the party inside an anti-magic field while removing negative levels and stat damage while dealing upto 2k damage a pop to any doomspheres and may be bothering you Yes they are the same HD but FvS also have up to four levels of toughness enhancements availabe... FvS also spot 10 stacking resists on three elements at level 18. Reflex save looks like it's a 5 point difference in reflex if they - the cleric/monk and Fvs/monk have the same dex i.e. 16 dex = 12 clonk and 17 FvS/monk - to equate the clonk would need to grab 10 more dex (One of the main points of having evasion is to be able to evade - itemized my FvS is sporting 40+ save buffed and as a cheap 32 pointer I never really put any work in her) A 36 pointer and geared up the toon would be even more so. Given like points in dex, con and wis the FvS's an easier build when splashing monk than the cleric is, they'll sport a higher chance to evade, 10 undispellable resists in three elements and likely more hp due to class toughness enhancements ... they're� rock solid as an evasion character.� You may still near dumpstat CHA on a FvS (mine was 12 and probably could have started with but a 10)� and still have 2300sp and a level 9 spell. Spell-wise I agree they're a lot tighter and have the bare minimum ... I still use heal mass, still have resurection and use scrolls for true res and many things my cleric usually just has loaded.� No they are not the healer an RS is - "nothing is." However... RS is not the be all end all in healing either, are a lot of healing builds which more than suffice in the game. My celric (is an old casting spec) is still a better healer than my FvS but my FvS is melee spec'd actually ... yet still heals anything. I solo'd heal from my cleric, fvs and even my bloody bard in epics from time to time and she is not even pressed in such direction... RS is nice but far from a "must have." Plus then again come RS and your looking for a possible reason to add Cha again since that is totally turn related in number by mod. Your quest examples - done those all before many times without any RS around and without any ranged people in group... doomsphere even elite is a chump for near any divine caster unless you somehow gimped it ... go figure. Is not to say would not be easier with an RS but all the same stops nothing. Vel's response was that the monk splash seems easier on a FvS ... which in all imo and all things� considered - it is - and also typically why on the average you see many more monk splashed FvS vs Clonk running around Stormreach.
	« Last Edit: Jan 21^st, 2011 at 5:22am by Emili »
	\|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \| IMaj7 vim7 \| iim7 V13 \|III7+� VI9 \| iim9� V13 \|IMaj7� �\|vm7 I9 \|IV6� �\|ivm7 bVII9 \|IMaj7 vim7 \|iim7 V13 \|I6� ivm7� bVII9 \|I69� �\| Bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'etre aim� et quand s'en va, l'espoir fuit.
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Phidius Korthos Resident Offline Posts: 12 Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #8 - Jan 30^th, 2011 at 6:50pm	Print Post
	For me, the problem with the 18/2 FvS/Monk is not what you are getting, it's what you are giving up. Static DR that is rarely/never bypassed is worth an awful lot. The cleric version doesn't give up nearly as much, comparitively speaking.


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() Special Attention Offline Hamster cocks expert Posts: 376 Location: Gayer & Retardia Joined: Nov 1^st, 2015 Gender:	Re: Clonks and Clogues? Reply #9 - Jun 22^nd, 2017 at 9:06am	Print Post


	Halfmaniac wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:16pm: I'm pretty sure it is safe to say that KNN has brought a BUNCH of stupid from users on this forum out in the open Halfmaniac wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:16pm: Some of you got baited real bad in an attempt to troll him back.
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