as long as you keep up on HP items & CHA/CON items.... never.  A well built sorc kills stuff long before it ever reaches you, however, after you get out of GH its a good idea to swap out FIRE for ICE (or air or earth, though ice/air do better than earth in vale/amarath - though fire can carry you pretty well in parts of reavers refuge as well).

The key is to know your spells, and to always have a backup (like a lightning spell when you are ice spec'd or distingrate or prismatic ray, ect) that can do damage when your primary won't.... however its not as hard as the 28 pt first life elf with 8 con makes it appear to be (or that 8 con drow for that matter).

I herd and CoC the shadows in there, even on a fire sav. Air WF is the winner for me, because I tend to play defensively and shortman a lot. In full groups I would probably take a Water (tho my Air is so much better geared I usually take that anyway).

With Sorcs, esp. if not planning on Epic, I say ditch Spell Pen and that, go all out for nuking these days. I used to take Spell Pen feat and the enhancement lines but really... you don't need to do much more than blast most things nowadays. Particularly with Air, very little is immune to the SLAs. So Quicken, Max, Emp, Heighten, SF: Evo Toughness (over and over if you want) and or GSF: Evo. I'd rather have +nuke DC than pen at the mo.

The DPS of Savants is so good right now I'm almost certainly going to go 18/2 and monk splash for two toughness feats on the next life, just because you can manage just fine without the capstone at the moment. Might as well play with splashes whilst it's perfectly doable is my thinking.

I find most of the time I don't need a Will save, but I do like to dump INT, spend my skill point/lvl in UMD and just leave Quicken on all the time. Sorcs have the SP for it.

JC wrote on Aug 18^th, 2011 at 7:19pm:

Marines wrote on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 8:09am:

This is probably your most coherent post ever.

I agree.

Marines wrote on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 8:09am:


Force of Personality is more of a waste. When does anyone ever use will saves anymore? FoM FTW

If you need FOM while scroll farming, epic timeblade is easy to get as well.

kum-gulp wrote on Aug 19^th, 2011 at 12:14pm:


How do sorcs not get the skill points for concentration? What else are you going to put them in?

Why would you put jump on an arcane.  If you really needed jump you have the god damn spell. 

As for fire vs. ice at low levels, haven't played a savant yet, but from observations, seems like ice is competitive... if not better than fire even in GH.  Frost lance (?) basically 1-shots everything.  No need to run stuff through firewalls, just kill everything on the run.

AtomicMew wrote on Aug 21^st, 2011 at 12:37am:

Beholders. Early levels. 4 or so to make the 6 odd from STR up to 40. That kind of thing.

kinda waste put points to str, more int , get intimi and diplo great skills, even with 8 start str can get str lvers in von5;P

Neither of those make you swim faster though. It's all about the speed. With a decent item (FF Boots/Ring of Swim+X usually) and points in it, you can whizz around nicely underwater. Speed is everything.

Arkat wrote on Aug 28^th, 2011 at 11:27am:



It also makes you fly faster, and glide when jumping/ff.

I see that nobody suggested Snootch awsomeness. 

I will have to take more time to read that thread once I have moved. ( to a new flat... Moving the DSL and the phone is going to be Interesting. )