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Last 2 feats for Monkcher? (Read 16852 times)

Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	I'm currently leveling this build, wis-based 10,000 stars manyshot monkcher: Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female (2 Fighter / 12 Monk / 6 Ranger) Hit Points: 266 Spell Points: 230 BAB: 17/17/22/2727 Fortitude: 19 Reflex: 17 Will: 15 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 14 14 Dexterity 16 19 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 8 8 Wisdom 16 20 Charisma 8 8 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 Level 1 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery Level 4 (Ranger) Level 5 (Ranger) Level 6 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness Level 7 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Level 8 (Ranger) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot Level 13 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot Level 14 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) ???? Level 16 (Monk) Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) ???? Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Having trouble picking the last 2 feats, considering: Mobility + Shot on the Run Stunning Fist + Power Attack Weapon Finesse + 2nd Toughness open to other ideas. Planning on being almost purely ranged, Water3 for passive ki gen to feed 10,000 stars, but with Touch of Death for melee DPS if/when I can't range for some reason.

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #1 - Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:41pm	Print Post
	power attack (pre req) - improved sunder or stunning fist - toughness would be my choices.

	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #2 - Nov 13^th, 2011 at 6:33pm	Print Post
	Don't make it would be my choice.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Grace Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 5851 Joined: Aug 4^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #3 - Nov 13^th, 2011 at 6:37pm	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 6:33pm: Don't make it would be my choice. What if he swaps out for a few levels of rogue?

	JDollar wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 5:25pm: she's Kmack's property Quote: You're obviously important to the community.� And not just because your skin is so supple and soft and smells like honeysuckle and friendship. JDollar wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 2:15am: To put in DnD terms Grace is a CR 60 EE Ball Busting Bitch
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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #4 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 1:14am	Print Post
	Grace wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 6:37pm: What if he swaps out for a few levels of rogue? It isn't like it can get any worse. May as well just go 6 arty, 12 mechanic, and 2 monk, for evasion.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #5 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 8:34am	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 1:14am: It isn't like it can get any worse.� May as well just go 6 arty, 12 mechanic, and 2 monk, for evasion. Dude, what's the problem here? Manyshot, 10,000 stars, and Touch of Death, not to mention high 30s DC if I decide to take Stunning Fist, and I should still have no trouble at all hitting 500hp with decent hp, ac, ninja fade.... So, high DPS even purely ranged, very survivable even in melee, some utility through ranger wands, what exactly is so terrible about this build?

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #6 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 1:40pm	Print Post
	The problem I've found with mine (first life) is that in epics where you'd really want to shine, you're slightly lacking on too hit. Granted I've been a bit lazy with gearing mine but that 19dex requirement hurts bad.

	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #7 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 2:21pm	Print Post
	Munkenmo wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 1:40pm: The problem I've found with mine (first life) is that in epics where you'd really want to shine, you're slightly lacking on too hit. Granted I've been a bit lazy with gearing mine but that 19dex requirement hurts bad. That was actually the biggest argument for going all-elf; the extra DEX meant that starting at 16 didn't hurt my other stats too badly, still had 16 base WIS +4 levels, so should be getting to 34-36 WIS without a problem. I do see your point, though, and will make sure to pick up a raven's sight to epic

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Blank_Zero Ex Member	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #8 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 3:38pm	Print Post
	Munkenmo wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 1:40pm: The problem I've found with mine (first life) is that in epics where you'd really want to shine, you're slightly lacking on too hit. Granted I've been a bit lazy with gearing mine but that 19dex requirement hurts bad. Not just that, but 30ish DC on stuns won't hit ANYTHING in Epics unless they roll 1's a lot. Not saying this build won't be fun, but it's definitely not an optimal one to put epic gear on.


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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #9 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 3:49pm	Print Post
	Quote: Not just that, but 30ish DC on stuns won't hit ANYTHING in Epics unless they roll 1's a lot. Not saying this build won't be fun, but it's definitely not an optimal one to put epic gear on. Stun DC's are no longer such an issue with stunning fist being based on character level rather than monk level. The DC is 10 + half character level (10)+ wisdom modifier (10-14) + Stunning items (10) = 40-44dc The new belt that gives +5 tactics further negates this drawback. Now going to land a stun and missing on the other hand.. that's whats pissing me off.
	« Last Edit: Nov 14^th, 2011 at 3:54pm by Munkenmo »
	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #10 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 4:04pm	Print Post
	Feynman wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 8:34am: Dude, what's the problem here? Manyshot, 10,000 stars, and Touch of Death, not to mention high 30s DC if I decide to take Stunning Fist, and I should still have no trouble at all hitting 500hp with decent hp, ac, ninja fade.... So, high DPS even purely ranged, very survivable even in melee, some utility through ranger wands, what exactly is so terrible about this build? It blows. That is what is terrible about it.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #11 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 8:48pm	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 4:04pm: It blows.� That is what is terrible about it. Ah, forgive my skepticism, you insightful comments and irrefutable logic have swayed me; what was I thinking? I was particularly affected by your devastating analysis of the specific faults of this build, and your list of suggested alternatives was both timely and exhaustive. When do you find time to write up such an in-depth critique of other people's builds? /....wait for it....sarcasm
	« Last Edit: Nov 14^th, 2011 at 8:49pm by Feynman »
	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #12 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 9:34pm	Print Post
	Feynman wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 8:48pm: Ah, forgive my skepticism, you insightful comments and irrefutable logic have swayed me; what was I thinking? I was particularly affected by your devastating analysis of the specific faults of this build, and your list of suggested alternatives was both timely and exhaustive. When do you find time to write up such an in-depth critique of other people's builds? /....wait for it....sarcasm It is hard for me to find the time, but I manage. You are welcome for my great insight, it is always a pleasure to serve.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Rastelin Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 305 Joined: Jan 3^rd, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #13 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 11:35pm	Print Post
	Feynman wrote on Nov 13^th, 2011 at 5:32pm: I'm currently leveling this build, wis-based 10,000 stars manyshot monkcher: Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female (2 Fighter / 12 Monk / 6 Ranger) Hit Points: 266 Spell Points: 230 BAB: 17/17/22/2727 Fortitude: 19 Reflex: 17 Will: 15 � �� Starting� � Feat/Enhancement Abilities� � Base Stats� � Modified Stats (32 Point)� � (Level 1)� �� (Level 20) Strength� �� 14� �� 14 Dexterity� �� 16� �� 19 Constitution� �� 14� �� 16 Intelligence� �� 8� �� 8 Wisdom� �� 16� �� 20 Charisma� �� 8� �� 8 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 Level 1 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery Level 4 (Ranger) Level 5 (Ranger) Level 6 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness Level 7 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Level 8 (Ranger) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot Level 13 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot Level 14 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) ???? Level 16 (Monk) Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) ???? Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Having trouble picking the last 2 feats, considering: Mobility + Shot on the Run Stunning Fist + Power Attack Weapon Finesse + 2nd Toughness open to other ideas. Planning on being almost purely ranged, Water3 for passive ki gen to feed 10,000 stars, but with Touch of Death for melee DPS if/when I can't range for some reason. If you're going to be ranging most of the time, here are some tips. If you insist on being ranged, drop ToD: it's great for meleeing, but you are going to be meleeing 40 seconds out of every 2 minutes. Switch to H-elf so you can pick up human versatility 4. Dual Bursting works even better with archers than other characters because Manyshot is a 20 secondboost that makes up a significant portion of your DPS. Also pick up Helf Dilly rogue for the extra 3d6 SA damage. On my personal 12/6/2, I am building str based with power attack and IC: Bludgeoning. I am going to keep ToD, but that's because I plan on meleeing more. I also think that Earth Stance 3 is the better stance. My additional 2 feats will be power attack and IC: bludgeoning.


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wowo Dragon Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 202 Joined: Nov 10^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #14 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:18am	Print Post
	I'd go with stunning fist and power attack. I'd definitely drop ToD. That's a lot of AP for an ability that you won't often have Ki for (with 10k stars activation cost and no Ki from bow attacks). Instead, pick up Static Charge and maybe Porous Soul as well. Lightning or Acid vulnerability on a boss can be pretty potent in a raid situation (depending on what raids you're doing). Half-elf would have definitely been a better choice. Earth and Water stance are the 2 good ones to swap between depending on the situation (water for kiting/high AC foes, earth for stand and smash raid situations). I think I'll wait for a +3 dex tome before I try this build, anyone got a spare one for me?


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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #15 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 3:44am	Print Post
	Rastelin wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 11:35pm: If you're going to be ranging most of the time, here are some tips. If you insist on being ranged, drop ToD: it's great for meleeing, but you are going to be meleeing 40 seconds out of every 2 minutes. Switch to H-elf so you can pick up human versatility 4. Dual Bursting works even better with archers than other characters because Manyshot is a 20 secondboost that makes up a significant portion of your DPS. Also pick up Helf Dilly rogue for the extra 3d6 SA damage. On my personal 12/6/2, I am building str based with power attack and IC: Bludgeoning. I am going to keep ToD, but that's because I plan on meleeing more. I also think that Earth Stance 3 is the better stance. My additional 2 feats will be power attack and IC: bludgeoning. I would love to be helf, but i don't have it; maybe if i tr. Instead I am using fighter haste boost while manyshotting. ToD might be a waste of AP, I'll just have to see how it looks. I'm putting points into WIS, getting lots of extra shots with 10k stars and high AC, which combined with ninja fade, means that I'm not getting destroyed when I pull aggro. I just leveled to 14 and it feels very strong

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Blank_Zero Ex Member	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #16 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 1:45pm	Print Post
	Munkenmo wrote on Nov 14^th, 2011 at 3:49pm: Stun DC's are no longer such an issue with stunning fist being based on character level rather than monk level. The DC is 10 + half character level (10)+ wisdom modifier (10-14) + Stunning items (10) = 40-44dc The new belt that gives +5 tactics further negates this drawback. Now going to land a stun and missing on the other hand.. that's whats pissing me off. 40+ DC works. But yes, your to-hit on a Monk (pure) is devastatingly low in Epics before you get your gear together.


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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #17 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:20pm	Print Post
	Quote: 40+ DC works. But yes, your to-hit on a Monk (pure) is devastatingly low in Epics before you get your gear together. OK, so since my DEX will be ~6 higher than my STR, should i take weapon finesse?

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Blank_Zero Ex Member	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #18 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:28pm	Print Post
	Feynman wrote on Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:20pm: OK, so since my DEX will be ~6 higher than my STR, should i take weapon finesse? Um, why aren't you taking Zen Archery? Then go STR for melee. Edit: See the feat now. take 15 Dex, +2 tome, etc. But unless you wanna go AC, don't go high Dex.
	« Last Edit: Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:29pm by »

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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #19 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:43pm	Print Post
	Quote: Um, why aren't you taking Zen Archery? Then go STR for melee. Edit: See the feat now. take 15 Dex, +2 tome, etc. But unless you wanna go AC, don't go high Dex. OK, maybe figure out the pre-reqs first; I need 19 base DEX, so 16 +1 level +2 tome.

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #20 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 6:06pm	Print Post
	Feynman wrote on Nov 15^th, 2011 at 2:20pm: OK, so since my DEX will be ~6 higher than my STR, should i take weapon finesse? nope, by the time your raged, rams might + madstone your str catches up and saves you a feat. also your comparing your +2 tome modifed dex to your no tome str.
	« Last Edit: Nov 15^th, 2011 at 6:08pm by Munkenmo »
	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #21 - Nov 15^th, 2011 at 11:28pm	Print Post
	Munkenmo wrote on Nov 15^th, 2011 at 6:06pm: nope, by the time your raged, rams might + madstone your str catches up and saves you a feat. also your comparing your +2 tome modifed dex to your no tome str. OK, well, I'm pretty much decided on stunning fist; it's just too tempting with high wis, char level instead of monk level, and the new spare hand coming out. One more feat, what's it going to be?

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Epoch Alaskan Ice Hole Offline Epochalypse Posts: 10377 Location: Frozen Tundra Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #22 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:01am	Print Post
	What you should be decided on is a good build.

	OnePercenter wrote on May 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am: I just read that the cat followed up by visiting the dog house later that night, dropping some Willie Pete in on the sleeping dog.� #epochsfamiliarFTW Sim-Sala-Bim wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 2:09am: It seems like Epoch never loses his popularity. Even against donuts.
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Feynman Epic Poster Offline I regret nothing! Posts: 4299 Joined: Sep 9^th, 2011	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #23 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 11:14am	Print Post
	Epoch wrote on Nov 16^th, 2011 at 4:01am: What you should be decided on is a good build. You know, I had another arcane archer, back when the level cap was 16, and we did an all-ranged (except for the 3 healers and 1 caster, of course) shroud; that was the first time we ever got through part 4 in one round. If you have a specific complaint about how this could be a better archer, please speak up. If your bias is against archers in general, then fuck off

	"Science makes godlike -- it is all over with priests and gods when man becomes scientific. Moral: science is the forbidden as such -- it alone is forbidden. Science is the first sin, the original sin. This alone is morality. ``Thou shalt not know'' -- the rest follows." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: Last 2 feats for Monkcher? Reply #24 - Nov 16^th, 2011 at 2:58pm	Print Post
	weapon focus bludgeoning weapons the too hit is that bad it's probably going to help when you melee. you could always re-evaluate it later.

	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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