Thanks Epoch, I hadn't considered using a Stalwart stance so I missed that nugget. Seems like 4Pal is the better way to go though for a DPS build.

I'm strongly considering 2Pal to go 12Ftr for Power Surge and twisting Endless Turning to get my Turn Undeads.

So, after an enemy gets through blur, displace, shadow vale, and AC, then you have a 1 in 20 chance of ignoring that damage?

How many attacks would it take to be able to take advantage of that? Sounds like a waste to me but I tend to avoid getting hit.

Packfan wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 8:38am:


It blocks both physical and spell damage for and there is barely anything else worth taking

I am under the impression that right now PTWF gives out 5% doublestrike to your main weapon even if you're not dual-wielding. At least, I've seen many builds include it for THF builds. Does it not work?

Vissarion wrote on Oct 10^th, 2013 at 11:08am:


I was not aware of that. Obviously I will take it then

Once Lamannia TR is unborked, I'll be testing Bladeforged 9 Monk/8 Fighter/3 Sorc using Cleaver.  Sorc 3 nets 567 SP (incl Wizardry X item, but does not includea CHA or Greensteel) which is 22 SLA Reconstructs before using a bauble.  10 AP in Eldritch Knight provides 3% doublestrike and 10 PRR.  I'll replace Rejuv Cocoon with Primal Scream.

Carpone wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:


I think that Iconics will still be forced to take their icon class after TR, because Turdbine ;/
Bladeforged + 1 lvl of pal
Morninglord + 1 lvl of clr
Shadarkai + 1 lvl of rog
Dragon knight + 1 lvl of ftr

Doublestrike (and hence Perfect TWF) isn't so hot if you're running LD and cleaving all the time - you don't get doublestrike off of cleaves.

cdr wrote on Oct 13^th, 2013 at 2:45am:

Yep.  But there's not much better to take instead.  Elusive Target isn't all that awesome:

100% chance to be hit * .50 Displacement * .75 Incorporeality * .95 Elusive Target = 35.62% to be hit.

100% chance to be hit * .50 Displacement * .75 Incorporeality = 37.5% to be hit without Elusive Target.

Some kind of necro, but I want to TR my bard into something useful now that he has a cleaver.

How do you guys feel about something Divine Might instead of 2 Druid?

2 FVS gets some saves and PRR.
2 Pal gets a lot of saves and DM at the cost of a destiny twist.

I have a variation of this build where im a 12m/8 fighter split. I am rejuvy/scroll healing atm but not a whole lot of healing amp but with my 90 AC and 84 PRR i am taking less damage than previous lives and I seem to be able to heal my self decent enough, though not as good as I could be with more healing amp. Originally, my plan was to shove a devotion 138 augment in cleaver to help that out but then mabar happened. That augment of endless night seemed too good to pass up. The ability to neg level mobs on top of what cleaver already does...I couldn't resist. So, I've been running around testing it out and I love it...I cant see changing that augment out.

So my plan for healing amp is to try and farm out the FOT gloves and adjust my gear accordingly. Unfortunately, my gear is kind of a hogpodge of named loot and U19 "guardian" gear. I do have convalescent bracers but they arent the superior version.  I am also looking at farming EE Shadowsight and Skullduggery kit though I'm not sure which version just yet.

The other thing I've done is run FOTW instead of LD. The main reason is that I like Precision over PA. It breaks down enemy fort from what I understand and I have noticed I actually do more damage with Precision than PA. Momentum swing requires PA to use where as Adrenaline overload doesn't. Now if I am wrong about this, please tell me. I am still learning and always welcome the opportunity to be educated by superior players with more experience than me.

All this being said, I am intrigued with the idea of a bladeforged version of this build for the cheap reconstruct that would eliminate the worry of adequate self heals.

aDifferentHandle wrote on Nov 13^th, 2013 at 1:32pm:



Thank you for the info about Precision, much appreciated. Like I said, I'm still trying to learn more to be a better player.

I do notice a significant amount of damage in my crits with precision during my time testing our Precision. I have tested it in EE quests and even o the training dummy on the ship. The most I've critted using human damage boost/adrenaline/deadly strike with PA is about 4500-4700 on a natural 20 roll. But with Precision, I've used the same combination and have critted for over 8k on a natural 20 roll. Even my non natural 20 rolls seen to hit for more damage than PA and I'm not sure why.

I admittedly don't seem to have the knowledge of the math or patience to understand why. My non crit swings with no boosts other than sting of the ninja are right around 200 per swing when you add up glancing blows and poison damage.

I really struggle to comprehend calculating THF damage. i can take one swing at the training dummy on the ship with cleaver and i get 5 columns of damage in one row, but I often also get 3 more numbers on a second row and occaisionally a third row with 2 more numbers of damage but I really don't know why or what the other rows of damage are for.

I assume the first row is the initial hit and glancing blows. I see the purple sting of the ninja poison damage. I am also assuming the other numbers are enhancement/epic destiny based and I am getting the occaisional chance for elemental effects to proc along with some sneak attack damage from ninja spy.

It's these things that make me still feel like a noob lol. I'm relatively new to doing custom builds. i used to just use the cookie cutter template follow your suggested path builds when I first started and then couldn't understand why my toons were garbage in the epic levels.