aDifferentHandle wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 3:51pm:


The Druid splash does lose much of its zing when you get Sireth. I've been tinkering with a 9 Monk/7 Rogue/4 Paladin version that'll have better survivability, DM, and access to Empower Healing. Kinda sucks to lose some sneak damage, but I care less about that on a stick build than I would on a TWF frame.

Munkenmo wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:10pm:


Eh, yeah probably. But I have a 16/2/2 Handwrap user and a 13 Rogue/6 Monk/1 Cleric Celestia user, so it's mainly for build diversity rather than strict DPS.

Munkenmo wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 2:46am:

Nope. Rogue Extra feats are at 10, 13, 17, 19.

aDifferentHandle wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 4:12am:


bleh, i meant 10rogue/6monk/4paladin.

Same advantages and disadvantages.

I run with a 13 rog/6 monk/1 druid HO staff build.  With a sireth in hand the DPS is hard to beat.

Vissarion wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:07am:


it takes 12 lvls  of monk for abundant step.

kierg10 wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:46am:


Well, derp.

This is what comes of taking frequent breaks.

Tyrsis wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 8:09am:


No it's not.

I could beat it with the same split easily by using wraps, or even shortswords.

Tyrsis wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:


One reason is the following: 13 levels of rogue add 7d6 sneak attack damage, which gets applied to every attack. With GTWF, 5 mainhand attacks proc 4 additional off-hand attacks (and a few more mainhand procs through doublestrike).

With THF, you only have main hand attacks and doublestrike procs.

However, I don't know how the attack speed compares (even with +15% attack speed from acrobat). See below for some more info on attack speed.

Another thing is base damage. I'm not that deep into monks, but I think it's not hard to surpass the 2.5[1d10] of sireth. Additionally, THF gets 1.5 damage per 2 Str points per attack. Unarmed with GTWF gets 1.8 damage per 2 Str per mainhand attack. (This is not considering doublestrike which has a higher benefit for THF than for TWF.)


Here's some technical details on attack speeds.
Quote:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/275144-Vanshilar-s-Attack-Speed-Index-...

so how good is duel celestias vs. celestia+treason?

And another note on splashing paladin: It's worth noting that DM on a pally costs 11 APs. If you are tight on APs, you might consider splashing a class which has access to the Warpriest tree. Paladin has a few more goodies (saves, HAmp), but from a DPS perspective, it looks like Cle/FVS have an edge.

Munkenmo wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:



Do you have any numbers on other THF weapons vs. QStaves?

Edit: More info on Extra damage through STR. With GTWF (and ignoríng offhand doublestrike), you need 60% or more doublestrike to get more damage per point of STR per mainhand attack from THF than from handwraps. TWF weapons get even less damage than THF.
This is not considering Cleave or Glancing Blows, which adds to THF, but then, THF is slower than Handwraps and TWF.

Munkenmo wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 12:02am:


This was a comparison made with EXTREME PREJUDICE.

Sticks have 15% increase in speed
Sticks have increased threat and multiplier at T5
Sticks have 25% doublestrike with 83% uptinme
Sticks only need 5 levels in a relevant class to get the T5 crit profile increase (allowing more combinations than centered fighter)