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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) The winners of U23 changes are... (Read 19231 times)
AtomicMew
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The winners of U23 changes are...
Oct 8th, 2014 at 4:43am
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... not paladins, palemasters. 

PMs are immune to almost everything dangerous in U23.  No-save perma-stun in fleshmakers?  Immune.  CON drain spam from doomsphere?  Immune.  Wraith damage in mark of death, high crit fort bypassing archer spikes?  Immune and immune (and probably a bunch of other things in that raid as well). 

No amount of paladin levels will allow you to solo GoP as fast or as easily as a palemaster can.  Meanwhile, light damage is nowhere to be seen.  It's as if quells forgot how to cast searing light. 
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:04am by AtomicMew »  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes is...
Reply #1 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 4:55am
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  Spot on.  Cannot believe they didn't see this. But there is no way that they could have intended this outcome, so it is a grade A screw up. 

  Please don't get me wrong, I have no problems with PMs at all, it is just clear that it is a happy accident that they won the lottery this way.

  I drew two conclusions, the first being that Turbine really pays no attention to lama results anymore, it is nothing more than Public relations now.  Secondly, that being the case, as long as they disregard player input Turbine Devs will need how to really play the game they design, if they are to avoid more of this. Yes, unlikely I know.

  I would say more but I have to go log in and TR into a Pale now.
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2014 at 4:56am by Hag Master »  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #2 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:15am
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PMs were always winning, it's just much more obvious in this metaendgame.
  

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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #3 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:19am
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AtomicMew wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 4:43am:
Wraith damage in mark of death

I have not seen the Abbot summon his death hex wraiths in MoD yet.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #4 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:36am
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AtomicMew wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 4:43am:
... not paladins, palemasters. 

PMs are immune to almost everything dangerous in U23.  No-save perma-stun in fleshmakers?  Immune.  CON drain spam from doomsphere?  Immune.  Wraith damage in mark of death, high crit fort bypassing archer spikes?  Immune and immune (and probably a bunch of other things in that raid as well). 

No amount of paladin levels will allow you to solo GoP as fast or as easily as a palemaster can.  Meanwhile, light damage is nowhere to be seen.  It's as if quells forgot how to cast searing light. 


Very true.
Don't forget about basicly free extra prr/mrr with light armor (and fanged gloves).
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #5 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:49am
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AtomicMew wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 4:43am:
... not paladins, palemasters. 

PMs are immune to almost everything dangerous in U23.  No-save perma-stun in fleshmakers?  Immune.  CON drain spam from doomsphere?  Immune.  Wraith damage in mark of death, high crit fort bypassing archer spikes?  Immune and immune (and probably a bunch of other things in that raid as well). 

No amount of paladin levels will allow you to solo GoP as fast or as easily as a palemaster can.  Meanwhile, light damage is nowhere to be seen.  It's as if quells forgot how to cast searing light. 


Il stick to the gop part.
It only has bracers and ring, and you can get those on lists.
ITs possible to solo it with resto pots spam as ranged monkcher or smthn faster then a pale.. cuz you know boss dps.
They are amazing in party when you have someone to kill boss for you tho.
Also, i prefer and like pale but thing is..
If you had a party of 12 pales in raid it would utterly suck esp with dknighs  part.
Palies still bring the thing that counts, aka dps.
But 1-3 pales for cc and insta are great.
My bet for winners are swf exploit druid builds tho.
This update made those fucking idiotic and easy cheesy button beyond belief

Also i have a plan to test out  a 15 palie 5 ranger. some things seem really good in that synergy
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:52am by Lelouch »  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #6 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:21am
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Ummm yeah, soloing Heroic GoP the 2nd brother almost *always* comes up so they can be killed together.

This wasn't the case on an EN, that mother fucker didn't go 20 ft past his runes before resetting. I could see it possibly not being an issue with the EE brothers supposedly having 1hp or some such and being able to out run the timer to the second.

Double-ewe the Eff!
  

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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #7 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:29am
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Lelouch wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:49am:
This update made those fucking idiotic and easy cheesy button beyond belief

Before the update I could stack every single effect in the game on a weapon. Nothing was easier. Nothing.

Lelouch wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:49am:
Also i have a plan to test out  a 15 palie 5 ranger. some things seem really good in that synergy

My friend Luri just did this build. Dual wielding death nips in heroics. Beast. We just hit 20 last night. Will let you know how it does in epics.
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:30am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #8 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:42am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:29am:
Before the update I could stack every single effect in the game on a weapon. Nothing was easier. Nothing.

My friend Luri just did this build. Dual wielding death nips in heroics. Beast. We just hit 20 last night. Will let you know how it does in epics. 


Yes please do, really interested how it plays out, i anticipate big issues with ap tho
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #9 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:17pm
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Lelouch wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:49am:
Also i have a plan to test out  a 15 palie 5 ranger. some things seem really good in that synergy


go 14/6.

Manyshot & itwf > Zeal & an extra shitty smite.

or go 14/5/1monk and get 100% off hand strikes.
  

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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #10 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:53pm
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I thought about that fora long time, eventually ate 20 heart and went pure.
Don't think additional offhand, Rams and some Devo is better than Kotc Capstone, 500 light on vorpals ( that procs a lot, additonal damage against light fearing stuff or knocked down stuff by Balanced attacks or Censured ), additional 4d6 scaled with mp light and 10 melee power.
Not missing manyshot at all, those air ellies are annoying though.
Heavy armour is ridiculous,  I wouldn't even think about robes at this point.
You can afk tank raging elite Lailat without taking much damage - on a twf toon in Crusader.
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #11 - Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:17pm
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Lelouch wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 5:49am:
Il stick to the gop part.
It only has bracers and ring, and you can get those on lists.
ITs possible to solo it with resto pots spam as ranged monkcher or smthn faster then a pale.. cuz you know boss dps.
They are amazing in party when you have someone to kill boss for you tho.
Also, i prefer and like pale but thing is..
If you had a party of 12 pales in raid it would utterly suck esp with dknighs  part.
Palies still bring the thing that counts, aka dps.
But 1-3 pales for cc and insta are great.
My bet for winners are swf exploit druid builds tho.
This update made those fucking idiotic and easy cheesy button beyond belief

Also i have a plan to test out  a 15 palie 5 ranger. some things seem really good in that synergy

EE GOP is faster to solo than EN on a palemaster.  You could say the same thing about any quest: "it only has XX, YY and ZZ loot. 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you'd be hard press to solo it faster than a palemaster on any toon. 8:53 on a palemaster sorc although it was actually shorter than that, since I spent an extra minute running my dual box in and killing him with greensteel.  And I could probably get an even faster time if I pot chugged... or realized that doomsphere was immune to electric dots  Roll Eyes

I think you're also forgetting that PM's don't need to be DC based toons.  You can easily do a caster DPS route or even a melee route.  All you need is 8 or 10 levels of wizard to max out self healing and not that many AP to be virtual god-mode in the current end-game.  I'm sure you could easily make a high melee DPS toon with the remaining 12 levels. 
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:17pm by AtomicMew »  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #12 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 1:10am
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AtomicMew wrote on Oct 8th, 2014 at 6:17pm:
All you need is 8 or 10 levels of wizard to max out self healing and not that many AP to be virtual god-mode in the current end-game.  I'm sure you could easily make a high melee DPS toon with the remaining 12 levels. 

Me and a friend got to brewing tonight on what type of melee we could do. It would have to be Kensei, Swashbuckler, or Acrobat for the critical range modifier.

Some ideas thrown around were 8 wiz/ 8 ftr/ 4 pally kensei in heavy armor. 12 wiz/ 5 rogue/ 3 mnk centered stick build. 10 wiz/ 6 bard/ 4 ftr swashbuckler.

The best dps we think would be the kensei using either maul thf or war hammer and orb with swf, dm and better saves than the other 2. What do you guys think?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #13 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 3:44am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 1:10am:
orb with swf


Do orbs work with swf? I thought it was only buckler or no off hand weapon? Orbs count as shields, no?

Note: I haven't had a whole lot of interest in swf, so if this has already been discussed, I've missed it.
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #14 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 3:51am
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Angry wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 3:44am:
Do orbs work with swf? I thought it was only buckler or no off hand weapon? Orbs count as shields, no?

Note: I haven't had a whole lot of interest in swf, so if this has already been discussed, I've missed it.

yes, swf works with orbs. Buckler only works if youre in swashbuckler tree. Otherwise it is empty off hand or orb/rune arm. Orb counts for shield when using shield mastery feats granting doublestrike bonus.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 4:06am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 3:51am:
yes, swf works with orbs. Buckler only works if youre in swashbuckler tree. Otherwise it is empty off hand or orb/rune arm. Orb counts for shield when using shield mastery feats granting doublestrike bonus.


Ah, ok.

Orbs also uncenter monks, this is what I meant when I said "count as shield".
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 4:53am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 1:10am:
The best dps we think would be the kensei using either maul thf or war hammer and orb with swf, dm and better saves than the other 2. What do you guys think?


Keen Edge: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range with your Focus weapons.

Pulverizer : Passive Bonus: Increases the critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1 (Competence bonus). Does not work with Handwraps.
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 7:26am
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Limpgimp wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 4:53am:
Keen Edge: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range with your Focus weapons.

Pulverizer : Passive Bonus: Increases the critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1 (Competence bonus). Does not work with Handwraps.

It's nice to remind yourself, but next time just use your notepad ;p
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #18 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 7:32am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 7:26am:
It's nice to remind yourself, but next time just use your notepad ;p


Wasn't needed to thank me.

Also, vampires suck. Literally.
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #19 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 7:35am
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Limpgimp wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 7:32am:
Also, vampires suck. Literally.


Grin I know, right?

It's a movie too.
  
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #20 - Oct 9th, 2014 at 8:25am
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Limpgimp wrote on Oct 9th, 2014 at 7:32am:
Wasn't needed to thank me.

yw
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #21 - Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:59am
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Vampire pally is too funny not to do.
  

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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #22 - Oct 12th, 2014 at 5:54pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Oct 11th, 2014 at 2:59am:
Vampire pally



  

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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #23 - Oct 12th, 2014 at 11:54pm
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Anyone get anywhere with an undead melee prototype?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: The winners of U23 changes are...
Reply #24 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:42am
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Rubbinns wrote on Oct 12th, 2014 at 11:54pm:
Anyone get anywhere with an undead melee prototype?


Only in theory. Zombie is a no-go because the attack speed penalty defeats the purpose.

Vampire actually has a lot of synergy. +Str, +Cha, level drain on vorpals...requires 6 wiz levels so you can still get holy sword...big drawback is triple light damage really. You can reduce that to double with improved shrouding, but the opportunity cost is too high since you can just drop form in light spammy content. The real problem is that 14 pally levels exclude you from 4th level wiz spells. So...that ends up being no-go as well.

Probably have to do it monk style to make it work. Wraith incorporeality + displacement is awesome. 12Wiz/6Monk/2whatever?
  

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