All tests were conducted against Red Named Boss Kobolds
All characters were Halfling for ease of Lesser TR
For 20 Monk Hallfing Enhancements were only the Bottom Row, 41 in NS, Rest in Harper
For others 16 in Halfling for Crit Threat, always 8 in Harper, and rest in AA or DWS, see enhancements column
All Characters wore exact same gear. Only had an Unwavering Ardency on Lam for a bow, so that's what was used
All builds without Tensers had 62-64 Dex.
Did not have Ship buffs on 20 Monk or 14Monk/6Ranger (no guild ship, 9/7/4 ported to Lamm with them)
Did not use any buffs outside of Action Boost, Tensers Scroll, Ram's Might, or ED/Enhancement based boosts (no other scrolls or pots, bard, or clickies)

Results:

image sharing

Original Speadsheet:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Ab-oaYfLw0ZmtWZ3kzTklUVTA/view?usp=sharing


Conclusions:
-For Red Named DPS, always FOTW, regardless of build. Probably means just always be Fury of the Wild (I was shocked it was true for all builds tested so far). BUT this comes with a huge caveat: in the Dojo adrenaline regens, making FOTW somewhat overperform on these tests.

-Rogue/Other Sneak Attack damage is really juicy and more than makes up for not have 10k (I was only wearing regular Deception, no Imp Deception, the Kobold was definitely not turned around the whole time).

-New 10k is good and provides burst, but cannot make up for the gimpiness of Pure 20 Monk (yes I was very surprised how weak this turned out to be, and no I promise I didn't try to gimp it. I followed Shuricannon 2.0 from Firewall as much as possible except I was halfling not Drow. Even went T5 Harper with 41 points in NS like his build thread says)

-New 10k is so good it makes a low SA damage build like 14Monk/6Ranger competitive with a non-10k 9 Ranger, 7 Rogue 4 Monk higher SA damage build

-Best build will probably be a 8Rogue/6Ranger/6Monk if nothing changes with 10k, Manyshot, and balance pass

-FOTW is wildly (get it?) variable. If you mistime your Adrenaline + Sniper or Slayer, it makes a really big difference. If you do that a few times adrenaline is buggy and sometimes looks like it's using a charge and activating and then it doesnt, it makes a really really big difference. So if you suck at active combat, YMMV in FOTW a lot.

Quote:


Test it for yourself.

My 20 Monks were Shuricannons, not AA's. I was a halfing so not an option. I followed everything about the Shuricannon 2.0 except as stated I was a Halfling for Lesser TR purposes.

If i have time tomorrow i Will test 8/6/6 and an Elf 20 Monk AA, but it will still probably be terrible, but probably slightly less terrible than a non-AA Monk. You do realize an AA Monk means no Ninja Spy capstone for +2 Crit threat right?

Also to be clear, when I said no clickies for Monk it means they have no active combat attacks (Snipet Shot, Headshot, Slayer Arrow, etc). All builds including 20 Monk benefitted from KtA, 10k if part of the build, Tesners scrolls and Action Boost Damage.

No builds used any clicky equipment, like Mask of Comedy or Girds or whatever. Sorry if that was unclear. These were meant to be completely unbiased tests.

Elf 20 Monk Shuri-Archer-Cannon
Enhancements
41 Ninja Spy Capstone
18 Elf AA Dex to Damage (bows), Feywild Tap
7-8 7 Elf AA Morphic Arrows, Imbue (for blunt damage bow in LD for pulverizer) or 8 Henshin Mystic for Contemplation
13 Harper KTA
0-1 Shintao

Twists WW, Cocoon, and Enlightenment or Whistler, Dance of Flowers

Feats
1 Monk: Shuriken Expertise Regular PBS
2-3 Monk Precision Regular Quick Draw
6 Monk 10k Regular Rapid Shot
9 Precise Shot
12 Zen Archery
15 Improved Precise Shot
18 Manyshot
21 IC:Thrown
24 IC: Bows
26 Epic Mage Armor
27 OC
28 Doubleshot

Oops mispost

1. Harper is a better tree than NS to go t5 on, NS t5 is completely garbage. Please go read the Shuricannon thread. It still puts 41pts in NS for capstone, but uses Harper for T5. You seem to be confused.

2. Monk trees are actually terrible for throwers, using them is not something you do to increase damage.

3. The main differantiators for DPS in my throwing tests so far are:

-Fury of the Wild
-Deepwood (the tree offers huge active and passive benefits for throwers). Alternatively AA to tier 5 for slayer. The combination of fury with sniper shot and/or slayer is very too much power.
-Sneak Attack damage

These are what you want to focus on for DPS.

I do think an elf AA who invests in spellpower will be closer to good than terrible, but only in Fury and if you take Slayer arrow, for Manyshot and 10k bursts. Otherwise you will probably remain in the 165-175 second range, though that is guessing because I have not tested it yet.

To have the power in Fury to make best use of 10k and Manyshot you need Sniper shot at a minimum and ideally both Sniper and Slayer. You can't do that on an AA and still go 41 points in NS.

I think this build is flavor.

harharharhar wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 12:37pm:

interesting. first life human ranger with str 60 using TF kopesh and getting around 120-110 seconds avg on red named kobolds. I could get faster times with tenser, sightless, assorted cookies+potions, and few more build points. Are throwers so far behind that? Havent tested mechs yet to compare(or any other builds).

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 12:47pm:


Um...

with minimal buffs a 9/7/4 thrower in my chart did it in 100 seconds.

What are you talking about? You mean pure throwers? Yes. They are terrible.

Also fuck you for such a miserable trash talking hate-bating worthless piece of shit all over the rest of DDO Vault.

By Pure I mean 20 Monk. Throwers that are multi-classed and don't use a Bow/10k are still in the sub 120 second region and fall into my green region of top DPS thrower builds.

Hybrids are good and work well.

I still haven't tested a 20 Monk AA Elf, let alone an optimized one with gear for Spellpower or Spellcraft points and gear. All of my commentary on that build is speculative, based on past experience and these test results.

Quote:


I did

21 in Elf for AA, tho really not nesc. Just get dex to damage and and ignore the AA tree. You should be in Fury, not LD.

Anyway, in Fury this took 169 seconds using 10k/Manyshot/10k and all the same buffs and equipment as above.

As I guessed, it's ok, but largely mediocre and I do not recommend.

I think 12ranger /8Monk  Human with dual damage boost will be very strong.

harharharhar wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 1:17pm:


I did a ranger 12/monk 7/sorc 1 (just for fun) and the lowest I got yet was 95 seconds.  This was T5 DWS but T4 imbues from AA in fury.

harharharhar wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 2:33am:


So you made your "new 10k stars is OP" post on the mobos and then went to do the actual testing and found out you were wrong? Why do you post your numbers here and not in your threat on the mobo?

gabrion wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 10:21pm:

Lulz

Thanks, interesting thread. I've not bothered to optimise an existing 15Monk/3Rogue/2Ranger at all, and her gear is shit, and I'm surprised how nicely the new 10k works. Good stuff.

Edit: fixed, thanks.