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RemRemi
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Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Nov 4th, 2015 at 2:59pm
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467429-TTK-is-way-too-low-healing-is-w...



I have to admit that I am getting really fucking tired of this fucko dragging out the non-existent data points and comparative results that no one can duplicate. I mean this guy is addicted to "our player polls", "our data", "many players", etc.... What a lying fucknugget.



Posted by Sev_Pay Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronClan
it makes things like the nerf to Vanguard exceedingly painful,

Can I get more info on this? We aren't seeing this at all; Vanguard is doing DPS comparable with Swashbuckler, Two Handed Fighting builds, and pretty much most melee except some hard core two weapon build. Which is really good considering the large amounts of active and passive mitigation the tree provides. I am concerned there is some of of disconnect either in expectation or performance.

Paladin or Fighter? Are you spending a lot of your points in a tanking tree? Can you maybe PM me your build? What kind of DPS numbers are you seeing?

Sev~
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:01pm
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#blackcocksmatter, but you already knew that, faggot!
  
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RemRemi
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:02pm
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Oh dear, someone has a crush on moi....

In fact I think the poor little idiot is trying to disrupt the thread before it can get started and has too many words and ideas for his little head to hold or understand.  Grin Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:04pm by RemRemi »  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:04pm
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so you're the faggot product of a broken home, with an old computer, paying an older vidya game; figures.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #4 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:24pm
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Quote:
Can I get more info on this? We aren't seeing this at all; Vanguard is doing DPS comparable with Swashbuckler, Two Handed Fighting builds, and pretty much most melee except some hard core two weapon build. Which is really good considering the large amounts of active and passive mitigation the tree provides. I am concerned there is some of of disconnect either in expectation or performance.

Paladin or Fighter? Are you spending a lot of your points in a tanking tree? Can you maybe PM me your build? What kind of DPS numbers are you seeing?

Sev~


I don't necessarily agree that there was a huge nerf to Vanguard, but I also don't know how Sev could say with a straight face that Vanguards had DPS on par with a Swash. 

Maybe we need to clarify what a "Vanguard" is.  I was thinking a Vanguard was a Fighter or Pally that spends more points in the Vanguard tree than any other tree.  And there's not much in there that compares with what Swash gets.  You are guaranteed to have 10% less attack speed and have a worse crit profile, even if you have the capstone.  If not, you are even slower.  That's a lot of DPS you are giving up.  Not sure where you are making up that ground.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #5 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:26pm
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Gee, it's almost as if every thread you put up from now until the end of time, is going to get trolled to shit and run into the fucking ground; faggot.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #6 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:30pm
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #7 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 4:24pm
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Sev's talking to Ironclan.   Ironclan's a fucking retard so odds are his toon is shit.

Nothing else to see here.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #8 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 4:30pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 4:24pm:
Ironclan's a fucking retard so odds are his toon is shit.


You're describing so many people.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #9 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 5:53pm
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Asheras wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 3:24pm:
but I also don't know how Sev could say with a straight face that Vanguards had DPS on par with a Swash.  


That one is easy. Sev does not have a fucking clue  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #10 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 5:54pm
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #11 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 6:44pm
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The fact that they keep dodging the questions about the nature of their alleged  testing, and the many surprises they only uncovered during the open lama and early live tend to make me think it's all fudging on the part Severlin.

Which would be just be a eye-roll kind of thing when he uses it reflexively when they are being defensive. But in the cases where they roll that out solely in service of the various agendas they want to implement but can't explain clearly and cohesively, but just think would be "better"? Well that type of use does really make me fed-up with Sev.   

And it's happening more often now.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #12 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 6:48pm
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DropBear
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #13 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 6:54pm
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The fact that they keep dodging the questions about the nature of their alleged  testing, and the many surprises they only uncovered during the open lama and early live tend to make me think it's all fudging on the part Severlin.

Which would be just be a eye-roll kind of thing when he uses it reflexively when they are being defensive. But in the cases where they roll that out solely in service of the various agendas they want to implement but can't explain clearly and cohesively, but just think would be "better"? Well that type of use does really make me fed-up with Sev.   

And it's happening more often now.



Given the way in which they use it, it is solely a mechanism to silence disquiet.
Unfortunately, they have neither authority over nor respect from the playerbase, so it doesn't work.

It's a blunt instrument of the lazy manager.  "I know something you don't so you can't challenge my view"

The terms are always vague, and they have actively engaged their little army of sycophants to push their agenda.
I'm sure in their minds they think they're "winning", when in fact they're losing valuable input from people who know more about their product than they do.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #14 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 6:56pm
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #15 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:15pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 6:54pm:
I'm sure in their minds they think they're "winning", when in fact they're losing valuable input from people who know more about their product than they do.



This right here is the core problem. Many of the biggest shifts in the game came from them seeing what successful invested players were doing with the game. Sometimes the shifts were good, sometimes bad, but at least there was a cause and effect where the players displayed knowledge the Devs didn't currently have and then the Devs used that knowledge. 

Now we are at a point where to acknowledge players knowledge and mastery of content doesn't happen because then those player's comments that may disagree with Sev and his team would have an avenue to established validity.

Instead they use vague terms, and undercut their own minions statements to induce a 'fog' that prevents objective results and foments subjective stances that are so much easier to dismiss.

Best example being, that not even the vaguest notion of the testing formats the Devs use is available, while they continue to both encourage and at the same time dismiss in game testing like Bruntsmash.

Actually I suppose a even better example is the unwillingness to allow Kingkobolds for testing on ships.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #16 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:17pm
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Eladiun
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #17 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:20pm
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Best example being, that not even the vaguest notion of the testing formats the Devs use is available, while they continue to both encourage and at the same time dismiss in game testing like Bruntsmash.


I don't care enough to stalk the main forums anymore but are there at least still players posting reams of DPS data like back in the day. It's hard to argue with spreadsheets.
  

Nevynn wrote on Nov 18th, 2010 at 11:38pm:
Anybody coming to this board expecting anything more sophisticated than a dick joke had better get used to disappointment.


Calvet wrote on Oct 20th, 2011 at 12:18pm:
I just got that impression after you spent 13 pages calling out eladiun for being an interwebs bully when anyone who's been posting on here already knew that.  I mean, he's proud of it and hardly tries to hide that at all.


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Eladiun is an awful person
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #18 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:30pm
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Eladiun wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:20pm:
I don't care enough to stalk the main forums anymore but are there at least still players posting reams of DPS data like back in the day. It's hard to argue with spreadsheets.


Not as many as before, but yeah.  They also have larger HP DPS test Kobolds on Lama that they use for testing.  But, as with anything, you can only simulate so many factors with spreadsheets and static targets that don't hit back.
  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #19 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:31pm
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #20 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:34pm
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Eladiun wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:20pm:
I don't care enough to stalk the main forums anymore but are there at least still players posting reams of DPS data like back in the day. It's hard to argue with spreadsheets.



Your smarter than I am for sure then man, because it is just obnoxious now. Many testers go to huge lengths to post what they worked long and hard on the main forums still, but now Sev backhands it all with comments about their mysterious testing standards and 'data'.  Sometimes when someone will make a statement in conflict with Sev's direction Sev will ask them to PM him the data, but if they post it on the thread instead he goes out of his way to avoid the thread afterwards or ignore the content. It's the kind of thing that is not only a good defense but also disheartening enough to discourage testers looking for hard numbers.

I have forwarded spreadsheets, vid files, and walk-troughs to Sev, Steel, and Varg 7 times the past year alone, never heard a peep back. My test partners have as well, seems the only time anyone heard back or it gets acknowledged on the boards is when it supports a agenda Sev is driving for.

One thing that really gives away the current Dev philosophy is the tag line Steelstar has as his signature: We don't only build for the builds that exist.  .  I like Steel's work and for the most part the intention of the line is good, to build a robust system.  But it also shows a mindset that would allow them to constantly blow off criticism of the game as it is, not as they may think it may become.

In essence: The players and naysayers are wrong because they don't know what we want to do.

Nevermind the fact that the Dev's have repeatedly shown they very seldom achieve what they intended to do.

Rant finished. Sux.
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:34pm by »  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #21 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:36pm
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #22 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:40pm
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Asheras wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:30pm:
Not as many as before, but yeah.  They also have larger HP DPS test Kobolds on Lama that they use for testing.  But, as with anything, you can only simulate so many factors with spreadsheets and static targets that don't hit back.



Did you see how the issue of the TWF hit box came up because of the static nature of the KingKobolds Ash?  it was a tricky situation for Sev, he was really touting the new tempest DPS getting higher but only after multiple actual in-game vid posted and DPS results were posted and reposted did the size of the box really show as a limiting factor so undeniably . That they did have to bend and enlarge it to a degree with a dirty fix.


Heads up to any TWF players as well, any time we have a short notice patch check your box profiles right away and post if it changes. That kind of late add-on cut/paste fix has been bugged often in following hotfixes.
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:42pm by »  
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #23 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:44pm
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Re: Sev_Pay talks more mystical turbine data
Reply #24 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:53pm
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Sev will ask them to PM him the data,

That is a dead fucking giveaway. What is his excuse? "oh, we don't want the threads spammed with actual evidence, because: reasons."
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2015 at 7:53pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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