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naarwen
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u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Nov 30th, 2015 at 8:40am
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Do I go pure ranger or so some splashes? the toon has 3 monk past lçives, a druid one and a barbarian one, gonna TR iit soon, wanted to go ranger TWF but very confusef with how melee builds are being builyt now

thank you
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 9:53am
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Survivable? 15 paladin/5 ranger, or 14/6 if you want a better ranged option.

Maximum DPS? Pure human STR based tempest T5 and DWS capstone with khopeshes AFAIK.
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2015 at 10:01am by string table error, tableDID »  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 10:00am
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Ranger PRR is lowish unless you invest in it.
They can get relatively high dodge at the same time.
They have one of the higher possible incorp.
They do not have a high amount of hitpoints (1100ish) unless you invest in it.
Dex-builds are only behind str-builds by a little now.
They have evasion.

Go dex-based. Scimitars, rapiers, and shortswords.
Capstone of ranger gives 10PRR. Go pure. Tempest and Deepwood give prr, take what you can out of those trees.
Take toughness and epic toughness.

Things to do in general:
a. make 1-2 displacement clickies if you don't have em. They are a huge survival boost.

Endgame Ranger Feat-progression. (You may want power attack and cleaves if you are leveling in heroics. DOD eliminates need for them in epics.)
Feats:
1, Weapon Finesse (or Khop. Prof. if str-based)
1H, Dodge
1autogrant, Bow Strength
2autogrant, TWF, rapid shot
3, Mobility
6,
6autogrant, Manyshot ITWF
9, IMP Crit Slashing or Pierce (Scimitars or rapiers/shortswords)
11autogrant, IPS, GTWF
12, TWF Defense (5 Prr)
15, Precision
18, Toughness
21, OC
24, Epic Toughness
26, PTWF
27, Epic Damage Reduction OR Epic Reflexes (Very useful)
28, Elusive Target (5% stacking incorp/dodge)

Destiny:
LD --- 30 PRR from blitz, but...
Kill it faster and it hurts you less.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 11:36am
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Weapon Finesse is redundant on a dex ranger.  Don't need it.

Go with:
Precision,
Completionist (if/when you have it)
WF Slashing/Pierce
Empower Healing
Dodge
IC Slash/Pierce
Toughness
TWF Defense

OC
Epic Toughness
Epic Reflexes
PTWF
Elusive Target or Holy Strikes/First Blood (Survivability vs. DPS)

That is 8 heroic feats, but one is Completionist.  That works for a human completionist or a non-human/non-completionist.  If you are a human non-completionist, then replace completionist with mobility or power critical. 

Destiny: LD with PRR Blitz seems best.  If you have a 4th twist slot, twist in Healing Hands  or Healing Spring.  Can be a nice, fast boost for self healing in a pinch.  The other three should be Sense Weakness, Cocoon, and Grim Precision.  Other options would be Primal Scream (+2 Str & Con, sonic damage AoE), Balanced Attacks (+6 attack, Knockdown effect on vorpal), Symmetric Strikes (+5% physical damage) for offensive.  For defense, maybe Lithe. 

  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #4 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 12:03pm
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naarwen wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 8:40am:
Do I go pure ranger or so some splashes? the toon has 3 monk past lçives, a druid one and a barbarian one, gonna TR iit soon, wanted to go ranger TWF but very confusef with how melee builds are being builyt now

thank you


For a Ranger icon at least 14 Ranger for TWF crits and Cure Serious.  At least 3 Paladin or 3 Fighter for Stalwart Defense.  Survivable enough from there with 3 Levels to spare.

I actually prefer 15 Ranger 4 Paladin 1 Rogue or 15 Ranger 3 Fighter 2 Barbarian.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 12:43pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 12:03pm:
For a Ranger icon at least 14 Ranger for TWF crits and Cure Serious.  At least 3 Paladin or 3 Fighter for Stalwart Defense.  Survivable enough from there with 3 Levels to spare.

I actually prefer 15 Ranger 4 Paladin 1 Rogue or 15 Ranger 3 Fighter 2 Barbarian.


By splashing 3 fighter or 3 pally to get:

+25 PRR and +25 MRR and +50% hate gen


You are giving up a ton of DPS:
+5% Melee Doublestrike when dual wielding,
+10% stacking chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding
+4 Dexterity,
+25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand while dual wielding.
+10 Melee Power
10% Fortification bypass
+2 Damage when attacking Favored Enemies.

Clicky: Currently selected enemy receives -25% Fortification, -10 Armor Class, -10 Spell Resistance, and suffers a -4 penalty to all ability scores for 3 minutes. This effect also works on bosses and Raid bosses.


And the following defensive stuff:
+10 Physical Resistance Rating
+10 Magical Resistance Rating.
+5 Incorporeality (stacking)
+10 Positive Spell Power

That's an awful lot of DPS and other defensive abilities to lose for 15 PRR and 15 MRR.

Personally, I think it's a terrible trade off.  And DWS and Tempest have so much to spend AP on, finding even 6 AP for stance and the PRR/MRR tier 1 boost is a challenge.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #6 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 12:48pm
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To be fair, the 3 Pally will give you LoH, but at 13x(Charisma modifier), it's not going to be that great. 

And the 3 Fighter gives you two feats.  Which can help a bit.  But being feat starved isn't generally the biggest issue for a Ranger, since they get so many for free.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 1:01pm
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Asheras wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 12:48pm:
To be fair, the 3 Pally will give you LoH, but at 13x(Charisma modifier), it's not going to be that great. 

And the 3 Fighter gives you two feats.  Which can help a bit.  But being feat starved isn't generally the biggest issue for a Ranger, since they get so many for free.   


Divine might and saves as well on Paladin.  Fighter gets cheap haste boost and extra feats (I take sprint in tempest).  An extra 15 Physical Resistance on both.  Point taken though I see it more as 2 sides of the same coin then 1 is better than the other (pure over multi).
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2015 at 1:04pm by DoRayEgon »  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #8 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 2:40pm
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I am currently working on a TWF human ranger, dex build (scimitar). At level 20 atm. Other then Eveningstar gear (trade ins) and a few old original epic items, I have not figured out his gear or the best ED route to go yet, (as im limited on time atm).

Ill let you know how it plays out, but if anyone has a suggestion on ED or gear, let me know, thanks.
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2015 at 2:42pm by palmer01 »  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #9 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 3:37pm
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DoRayEgon wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 1:01pm:
Divine might and saves as well on Paladin.  Fighter gets cheap haste boost and extra feats (I take sprint in tempest).  An extra 15 Physical Resistance on both.  Point taken though I see it more as 2 sides of the same coin then 1 is better than the other (pure over multi).


The saves is a valid benefit to Pally, but getting divine might means going at least 7 AP deep for the 1st tier.  And assuming you are a dex build, it doesn't do anything for you.  Even if you are strength based, 7 AP on top of the 6 you need for stance with PRR/MRR is a tough sell.  You are certainly losing some DPS that could be earned in DWS or Tempest. 

I have the same issue with fighter.  Rather than taking haste boost in the tempest tree you are putting 4 AP into the fighter tree to get it.  That seems wasteful to me.  Sprint boost is nice and all, but I'd rather use those AP on defense or offense. 

I agree, it's two halves of the same coin.  I ran a 12/8 and 14/6 ranger/fighter that was a beast.  Very fun to play.  But the 20 ranger i've been kicking around seems to do more DPS.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #10 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 4:42pm
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Which one would you choose:

Human 20 Ranger in DC
or
Bladeforged 18 Ranger / 2 Paladin in LD ?

and scimitar or kopesh?
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 5:22pm
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Human 20 ranger in DC.

Scim if dex, khop if str.

Prefer dex, myself.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #12 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 5:54pm
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Starkjade wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 5:22pm:
Human 20 ranger in DC.

Scim if dex, khop if str.

Prefer dex, myself.


Agreed.  I'm liking the synergy of the dex build with strong reflex saves and dodge with decent (but not great) PRR and MRR in light armor. 


  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #13 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 6:54pm
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What about saves? Pure has enough for end game? Reflex I guess is good if I go Dex, but Fort and Will will be kinda low.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #14 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 7:40pm
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DnD wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 6:54pm:
but Fort and Will will be kinda low.


I twist in the +6/no fail fort from T1 Draconic, and the other one from Grandmaster occasionally.  Easy to get around 70 on my first-lifer with no EPLs and only +3 or 4 stat tomes.

Can't do much about Will, certainly, but you have FoM and more than enough skill points for UMDing Protection from Evil wands and GH scrolls.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #15 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 7:50pm
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Starkjade wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 7:40pm:
I twist in the +6/no fail fort from T1 Draconic, and the other one from Grandmaster occasionally.  Easy to get around 70 on my first-lifer with no EPLs and only +3 or 4 stat tomes.

Can't do much about Will, certainly, but you have FoM and more than enough skill points for UMDing Protection from Evil wands and GH scrolls.


Fort saves are generally for instakill stuff and can be mitigated by deathblock and deathward.  Will saves are generally for CC and can be controlled through FoM and Protection from Evil.  It won't help with some situational stuff, to be sure.  But you can build a TWF pally with holy sword if you want high saves across the board and DPS.  I've rarely run into problems with low will or fort saves in epic content unless I'm being lazy with my buffs and gear.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #16 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 9:29pm
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How bout.  12 rgr/4pali/4fvs str based.   Pali stances, extra hp, saves, better loh: 4fvs gives cheaper divine might, more Prr, ameliorating strike for mass cure wounds effect. 

  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #17 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 10:01pm
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Or 14 rgr/4pali/2fvs.  You lose out on ameliorating strike and a couple other things but gain csw.  Or 2 ftr for feats etc. Go human.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #18 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 10:08pm
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It's basically a question of how much DPS you want to give up for survivability.  Most splashes add some self heals or damage mitigation.  The cost is the DPS loss of the level 18/20 enhancements.  I think Turbine did a good job in the balance because those are strong enough that it makes going pure valuable, but the defense is just light enough that splashing in something for defense is worthwhile.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #19 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 11:14pm
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Any ranger that isn't a dwarf with dual dwarven axes is a bitch.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #20 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 11:59pm
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Or 12 rgr/5 wiz/3 Pali, but you lose a lot of dps etc this way.  5 wiz for perma tensers, blur, displacement, Prr etc in eldritch knight tree.  Way more  survivable.  Decent dps with khopeshes.  Should be hard to kill.  Loss of tier 5 tempest/Dws is a lot tho. 
« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2015 at 12:00am by Doodle »  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #21 - Dec 1st, 2015 at 2:22am
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Asheras wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 7:50pm:
Fort saves are generally for instakill stuff and can be mitigated by deathblock and deathward.


Disintigrates are the real bitch as far as common fort saves.

Frost Lance can get annoying, too.

Oh, and drow poison paralysis after a few stacks of poison weakness.

And stuns.

Lots of good reasons to keep the fort save high.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #22 - Dec 1st, 2015 at 3:17am
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Epoch wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 11:14pm:
Any ranger that isn't a dwarf with dual dwarven axes is a bitch.

I agree.
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #23 - Dec 1st, 2015 at 6:23am
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Which are the differences between Tempest and DWS capstones?
Which is better?
  
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Re: u28 survuble ranger TWF melee build
Reply #24 - Dec 1st, 2015 at 7:06am
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GrizzlyBear wrote on Dec 1st, 2015 at 6:23am:
Which are the differences between Tempest and DWS capstones?
Which is better?




As for which one is better, DWS, unless you do as much damage as a wet noodle, and even then, it's still better although the difference is not as noticeable.

Hardest part comes in not being AP starved. Going 39/41 Tempest/DWS is great and all but you loose racial/AA enhancements if you wanted to take them.
  
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