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Bushin
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Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Mar 5th, 2016 at 7:36am
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Hey all. I'm looking to TR my main (no completionist, 36 point build) and I want to try something different (I mainly have experience with melee).

I'm looking for an arti past life and wanted to play with repeaters. Judging by the mechanic tier 5 abilities atleast 5 rogue is a must? Possibly 6 but i'm not sure if Rogue 6 adds more than arty 15.

Does anyone have race/feat recommendations? I'm looking for the following in the build:
-Ranged build, arti past life.
-Mostly solo play so self sufficient.
-Mostly built for fast heroic levelling.
-If at all possible able to do EE content for a quick EPL, does NOT have to be LE capable.
-Race other than warforged, because I do not have that. Construct essence would be an option.

Does anyone with more ranged experience have a build/suggestions I could use? Much appreciated.
« Last Edit: Mar 5th, 2016 at 7:36am by Bushin »  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #1 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:46am
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Halfling, pure rog, look into it.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:53am
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Bushin wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 7:36am:
I'm looking for an arti past life


[] wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:46am:
Halfling, pure rog, look into it.


Right.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:56am
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Gnome, at least 6 rogue and at least 12 arti. For the last 2 levels you can go 14 arti for moar runearm damge, or 7 rogue for more sneak attack or 1 wiz for an iconic past life.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #4 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:56am
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crunch wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:53am:
Right.


I stand by my previous statement, and all implications thereof.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #5 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 11:20am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 9:56am:
Gnome, at least 6 rogue and at least 12 arti. For the last 2 levels you can go 14 arti for moar runearm damge, or 7 rogue for more sneak attack or 1 wiz for an iconic past life.


Thanks for the tips. What feats would you recommend? I'm leaning towards 14 arti for spell slots and runearm damage. As a lot of stuff is immune to sneak damage.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #6 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 12:43pm
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Bushin wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 11:20am:
Thanks for the tips. What feats would you recommend? I'm leaning towards 14 arti for spell slots and runearm damage. As a lot of stuff is immune to sneak damage.


Make sure you take (and spam) Assassin's Trick to remove sneak attack immunity.

As for feats:
RAARR RRRAA AAAAA AAAAA


1 Point Blank Shot
3(Arti autogrant)Rapid Reload
3 Rapid Shot
6 Precision
9 Skill Focus UMD (start scroll healing)
10a Precise Shot
12 Dodge
14a Imp Critical
15 Imp Precise Shot
18a Weapon Focus Ranged
18 Weapon Focus Thrown
21 OC
24 Combat Archery
26 Spellpower
27 Mobility
28 Doubleshot
29 Harbinger
30 Shot on the run

Max out Int, but you'll have a prereq of least 19 dex by level 15. Start with 15 if you have a +4 tome. (You'll want to hit 21 by level 24 if you linger into epics rather than TRing at 20.)

38 in mech for t5
25 in assassin for killer + sneak attack
17 in gnome for weapon training
  

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Bushin
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #7 - Mar 5th, 2016 at 4:19pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 12:43pm:
Make sure you take (and spam) Assassin's Trick to remove sneak attack immunity.

As for feats:
RAARR RRRAA AAAAA AAAAA


1 Point Blank Shot
3(Arti autogrant)Rapid Reload
3 Rapid Shot
6 Precision
9 Skill Focus UMD (start scroll healing)
10a Precise Shot
12 Dodge
14a Imp Critical
15 Imp Precise Shot
18a Weapon Focus Ranged
18 Weapon Focus Thrown
21 OC
24 Combat Archery
26 Spellpower
27 Mobility
28 Doubleshot
29 Harbinger
30 Shot on the run

Max out Int, but you'll have a prereq of least 19 dex by level 15. Start with 15 if you have a +4 tome. (You'll want to hit 21 by level 24 if you linger into epics rather than TRing at 20.)

38 in mech for t5
25 in assassin for killer + sneak attack
17 in gnome for weapon training


Thanks so much for taking the time to write that out for me. Looks solid from my limited understanding with ranged builds. As I suspected the arti trees are so bad for ranged that i'm better of not bothering. And judging by what i've read we're not getting an arti pass.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #8 - Mar 6th, 2016 at 11:02am
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Bushin wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 4:19pm:
Thanks so much for taking the time to write that out for me. Looks solid from my limited understanding with ranged builds. As I suspected the arti trees are so bad for ranged that i'm better of not bothering. And judging by what i've read we're not getting an arti pass.


NP.

Let's keep hoping they add Mech as the 3rd Arti tree.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #9 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 4:24pm
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I'm considering TRing my WF 20 Arti in to Deep Gnome pure Arti.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #10 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:43pm
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Bushin wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 11:20am:
I'm leaning towards 14 arti for spell slots and runearm damage.

The current game won't show you much difference in rune arm dmg from 2 levels. Plus, using it slows you down. If you've been stationary, a fully charged blast can finish off an approaching mob, but it's pretty funny when you need to run and your rune arm's on auto-charge  Grin

You'll notice 5FS didn't put any metamagic feats on his list. There's a reason for that. Treat your spells as buffs only. Turret is awesome in normal progression, but with a split, it will only serve as a floor button-pusher.

Mechanic sits on top of the ranged pyramid. The fewer rogue levels, the less dps, plain and simple. It's not really worth getting fancy.


5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 12:43pm:
9 Skill Focus UMD (start scroll healing)

Fuck no.

That's the only quibble I have, if you're set on 14 arti. Personally, I'd go to 15, or stop at 12.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 11:59pm
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Bushin wrote on Mar 5th, 2016 at 11:20am:
As a lot of stuff is immune to sneak damage.


Quote:
Assassin's Trick: Activate: Target opponent loses 25% of their fortification and 25% of their immunity to sneak attacks for 15 seconds. (Cooldown: 6 seconds)

AP Cost: 1
Ranks: 1
Progression: 10
Requires: Dagger in the Back, Level 6 Rogue


No reason to go above 12 levels of Arti. There isn't really a reason to even go above 10 levels but that's arguable. The main DPS comes from Mech + Assassin trees so you want to sink most of your AP in there.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #12 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 12:34am
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Galadriel wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 11:59pm:
No reason to go above 12 levels of Arti. There isn't really a reason to even go above 10 levels but that's arguable. The main DPS comes from Mech + Assassin trees so you want to sink most of your AP in there.


At first I was thinking at least 12 arti for a capstone but since i'm not investing in arti trees at all maybe 11/9 would be better. It would give me some more sneak damage. Higher levels of arti do give me better scroll casting and some more spells. If I take 11 arti I only get up to level 4 spells but I suppose i'm not missing that much.

It seemed to me that more arti gave me some more self sufficiency.

After looking it over some more arti 12 does give another bonus feat. Though I guess this build isn't exactly feat starved.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2016 at 12:42am by Bushin »  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #13 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 9:30am
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Bushin wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 12:34am:
At first I was thinking at least 12 arti for a capstone but since i'm not investing in arti trees at all maybe 11/9 would be better. It would give me some more sneak damage. Higher levels of arti do give me better scroll casting and some more spells. If I take 11 arti I only get up to level 4 spells but I suppose i'm not missing that much.

It seemed to me that more arti gave me some more self sufficiency.

After looking it over some more arti 12 does give another bonus feat. Though I guess this build isn't exactly feat starved.


Pretty much.

If you want to derp around and have fun with the build, you can always add 3-4 Paladin for Stance + more Speed and more saves at the expense of a small amount of dps. Nothing will be able to kill you in heroics unless you fall asleep at the keyboard but you get a large amount of that from being ranged anyways.

Either way, have fun with whatever you pick Smiley
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #14 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:45am
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Revaulting wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 9:43pm:
Fuck no.


I guess I should point out that you need gear/tomes to do it well at 9. Still, construct essence is a trap.

Level 9 UMD:

12 ranks
2 Gnome AP
3 Mech AP
2 Arti Knowledge
3 Charisma (8 base+6 item+2 tome)
3 Skill Tome
3 Skill Focus
3 Competence (Cartouche or persuasion item)
3 Guild (ship buff)
4 Morale (GH)
1 luck (Voice)
1 enhancement (Big Top)
1 profane (Spider mask)

=41 (39 needed for no fail)

Scrolls are boosted to CL 12 by artificing and amplified by 75% by scroll mastery enhancements (120x1.75=210)
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #15 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 12:07pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:45am:
I guess I should point out that you need gear/tomes to do it well at 9. Still, construct essence is a trap.

Level 9 UMD:

12 ranks
2 Gnome AP
3 Mech AP
2 Arti Knowledge
3 Charisma (8 base+6 item+2 tome)
3 Skill Tome
3 Skill Focus
3 Competence (Cartouche or persuasion item)
3 Guild (ship buff)
4 Morale (GH)
1 luck (Voice)
1 enhancement (Big Top)
1 profane (Spider mask)

=41 (39 needed for no fail)

Scrolls are boosted to CL 12 by artificing and amplified by 75% by scroll mastery enhancements (120x1.75=210)


If I were to go human (because of not wanting to spend money on TP until they fix some of the long standing issues mostly) I'd have a severe drop in DPS. Would the extra feat be skill focus UMD? Because I don't really see anything else usefull.

The enhancement points allocated to gnome would probably be spread between harper and a bit of human (KtA seems pretty valuable on a pure INT ranged arti).


  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #16 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:53pm
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Bushin wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 12:07pm:
If I were to go human (because of not wanting to spend money on TP until they fix some of the long standing issues mostly) I'd have a severe drop in DPS. Would the extra feat be skill focus UMD? Because I don't really see anything else usefull.

The enhancement points allocated to gnome would probably be spread between harper and a bit of human (KtA seems pretty valuable on a pure INT ranged arti).


Skill focus was included in my gnome layout. If you went human, the feats would slide up and you'd end up taking something else at 30. (Epic DR maybe?)

I wouldn't go human though. I guess it is sufficient if TRing at 20 is the goal, but I'd rather 8 arti/7 bard/5 rogue swash or 9 arti/9 druid/2 ranger wolf to get a past life.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #17 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 2:48pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:53pm:
Skill focus was included in my gnome layout. If you went human, the feats would slide up and you'd end up taking something else at 30. (Epic DR maybe?)

I wouldn't go human though. I guess it is sufficient if TRing at 20 is the goal, but I'd rather 8 arti/7 bard/5 rogue swash or 9 arti/9 druid/2 ranger wolf to get a past life.


I'm kind of tempted to move this build over one life so I can get enough favor to buy gnome next life. It seems really fun but I guess human just loses too much on this one. Ah well, I haven't run barb since their buff and I have a ton of two handers so that'd make for a quick in between life.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #18 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:20pm
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Another option you might want to consider is an 8/6/6 art/rog/rgr with light repeaters and elemental arrow imbues.

Go human for dual boosts, healing amp and bonus feat or gnome/deep gnome for synergy with Int-to-Hit/Dmg and short height for better IPS. 

You can double-dip on the runearm perks via the innate runearm imbue plus the relevant spell power bonus for the AA elemental imbue.  That frees up a non-runearm slot that you would normally need to devote to spellpower.

Enhancements would look something like this:
37 Mechanic -- Tier 5s (minus Time Bomb), lvl 6 core (Int-to-Hit and extended SA range)
25 DWS -- Lvl 6 core (Sniper Shot and extended SA range), Killer, and Merciful Shot
12 AA -- Elemental Arrows (tier 3)
03 Harper -- Int to Hit (if not dex-based)

5 points left over to use as desired for dual boosts, healing amp, etc.

Optionally, you could forgo Sniper in Mechanic and drop down to tier 2 Elemental Arrows in AA.  That would give you enough points to pickup Assassin's Trick and 2 SA die from the Assassin tree.  Splitting hairs at this point though.

This build is overpowered in heroics and does reasonably well in EE even if it's not top tier DPS in the end.  I ran something similar for a past life recently and the elemental imbue dmg was as much or more than the base bolt damage with level-appropriate spellpower.

The only weakness is self-healing.  It relies primarily on scrolls and potions until cocoon but if you play it intelligently, you rarely get hit anyway.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:25pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #19 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:48pm
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Digimonk wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 3:20pm:
Another option you might want to consider is an 8/6/6 art/rog/rgr with light repeaters and elemental arrow imbues.

Go human for dual boosts, healing amp and bonus feat or gnome/deep gnome for synergy with Int-to-Hit/Dmg and short height for better IPS. 

You can double-dip on the runearm perks via the innate runearm imbue plus the relevant spell power bonus for the AA elemental imbue.  That frees up a non-runearm slot that you would normally need to devote to spellpower.

Enhancements would look something like this:
37 Mechanic -- Tier 5s (minus Time Bomb), lvl 6 core (Int-to-Hit and extended SA range)
25 DWS -- Lvl 6 core (Sniper Shot and extended SA range), Killer, and Merciful Shot
12 AA -- Elemental Arrows (tier 3)
03 Harper -- Int to Hit (if not dex-based)

5 points left over to use as desired for dual boosts, healing amp, etc.

Optionally, you could forgo Sniper in Mechanic and drop down to tier 2 Elemental Arrows in AA.  That would give you enough points to pickup Assassin's Trick and 2 SA die from the Assassin tree.  Splitting hairs at this point though.

This build is overpowered in heroics and does reasonably well in EE even if it's not top tier DPS in the end.  I ran something similar for a past life recently and the elemental imbue dmg was as much or more than the base bolt damage with level-appropriate spellpower.

The only weakness is self-healing.  It relies primarily on scrolls and potions until cocoon but if you play it intelligently, you rarely get hit anyway.


This also looks very interesting and is more in-line with the fact that i do not have gnome. Might have to run arti twice now to test both builds.

Everyone thanks for the great suggestions so far. I'm learning a lot about how to build a ranged build.
General question. Would insightfull reflexes be good for this build? You need a decent (21 atleast) DEX so I don't know how big the difference in evasion would be.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #20 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 4:56pm
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Insightful Reflexes is great if you are going the Int-to-Hit/Dmg route.  If you have a +5 tome, you only need 16 starting dex to hit 21 before epics.

  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #21 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:08pm
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I wouldn't take Insightful Reflexes since your dex is going to be pretty good anyway.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #22 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:51pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 10:45am:
I guess I should point out that you need gear/tomes to do it well at 9. Still, construct essence is a trap.

All this is true. My objection mainly stems from not needing to do it well at 9.

Bushin wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 12:07pm:
The enhancement points allocated to gnome would probably be spread between harper and a bit of human (KtA seems pretty valuable on a pure INT ranged arti).

It is.

5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:08pm:
I wouldn't take Insightful Reflexes since your dex is going to be pretty good anyway.

I agree, if the build is only going to 20. At cap, the difference makes you regret that skill focus UMD feat, enough to swap it out. Do this, for the best of both worlds.
  

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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #23 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 12:24am
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Revaulting wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:51pm:
All this is true. My objection mainly stems from not needing to do it well at 9.

It is.

I agree, if the build is only going to 20. At cap, the difference makes you regret that skill focus UMD feat, enough to swap it out. Do this, for the best of both worlds.


That's actually a really good point. Skill focus till around level 15 and then swap it out before epics. I'm thinking level 15 specifically because of all the abishai in the archon and new meridia content. Those attacks still really hurt  at level on my current char.
  
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Re: Looking for artificer/rogue build.
Reply #24 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 5:06am
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Not being where they hit helps a lot Tongue
  

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