PersonaNonGrata wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 9:21pm:


Lol sorry been doing this mostly while on my phone. I believe I meant akin to artifacts for that first part. And the second bit was probably just or. Somtimes this niggas tech typing with my thumbs shit is the true source of miscommunication.

karavek wrote on Jul 19^th, 2016 at 12:32pm:

Wait. You're saying the devs paid attention to what was happening in the game? That was a goddamn fucking golden age.

DropBear wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 4:22am:


Oh, O.K. Oscar fucking Wilde.

Cannith Crafting - Part Trip

Some commentary/translations:
Quote:

This is mostly good for players.  But why does the cynic in me keep whispering "They want to sell success boosters!"
At 50% chance I used the free (plat purchased) 10% boosters and dealt with it if I had a bad run of luck.  But if people can try at 1% then they are probably more likely to want to buy the store-only success boosters.

Quote:

Still managing to be incomplete in the information provided.  What she meant to say was Rune Arms and Cannith Challenge gear.  I think.

Quote:

They just aren't good designers.  The proposed (read: already coded and won't be changed regardless of player feedback, as per SOP) NewCC limits what effects can go where based on the current CC item restrictions and then further subdivided that 'flexibility' by limiting what can go into Slot1, Slot2, Bonus1.  By removing 'flex shards' they are removing options that existed in OldCC.  Removing options is never a good thing.

Their excuse:
Quote:

Since power creep has already made a lot of Named items obsolete, that really isn't a valid consideration.  The only excuse remaining then is NRL.  And so they are saying that the egos of the people who developed NRL have won in the boardroom over the egos of the people developing NewCC.  Because really all they are saying is that they favor the one system over the other.

Quote:

This is just utter crap.  In OldCC you can make a huge number of items just using the essences you stood at a machine for hours melting down magic items to create.  Now you'll need collectables for all recipes?  If anything kills the NewCC system (aside from incompetent programming), this will be it.

Quote:

So in the creation of a new crafting system they aren't just eliminating the old crafting system of the same name, they are also eliminating the Stone of Change crafting system.  Or at least breaking parts of it, since Lightning Split Soarwood is required for the Resistance Ritual.  Given their general level of incompetence, this is probably an unintended change.

And there are still a lot of craftable effects that are going to vanish when OldCC goes away.

Asheras wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 2:47pm:


I quoted the source...
Quote:

It's easy to read into something that uses the words 'for example,' but it did say specifically that "the Eberron related lore [collectables will be] removed."  If Soarwood is on that list, then so is Lightning-split Soarwood.

And they don't need to mention Stone of Change rituals at all, directly.  If they say they are removing the collectables (or at least one of them) from the game that the SoC requires, that by logical deduction removes that SoC ritual from the game also.

Asheras wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 3:39pm:


Seems pretty clear that they ARE ADDING collectibles to FR......with ones that are strictly related to Eberron Lore (Like soarwood) NOT being included in the ones they add to FR content.

They are not removing soarwood, they are just not adding it to FR.

karavek wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 8:51am:


It shows!

DropBear wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

I doubt 95% of of the player base would even know if soarwood was ebberon specific.  Of the 5% who would know, maybe 5% of them would give a shit about the lore issue.

Asheras wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 10:48pm:


So we're back to just Uska then?   


Revaulting wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 10:54pm:


Here's how I rationalise it RV - Sev thought those things were over-performing, so he's delegated someone to fix them so he can distract the masses with, "Hey we did something!" and the fanbois did rejoice and froth at thy mouth.

Don't lose any sleep over it, so they fixed a few bugs out of how many?


But why did they fix them?
Low hanging fruit?
Some intern over-performing?
PacMan larp was being upgraded?
An accident, someone used an old version of code and realised it worked better?
Who cares.

I'm not quite ready to congratulate them just yet...

Asheras wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 3:39pm:

All right, you've convinced me.

The issue remains that they are still:
1) Adding new collectables to a game bloated to the gills on them.  They have collectables that they have never bothered to utilize correctly or fully.  See: Soul Gems and Cannith Crafting for just one example.
- Trap the Soul requires an expensive component (except for the pay to play Warlock class)
- Many Soul Gems have zero utility
- Can't even use a high level SG with zero programmed use in a recipe requiring a lower level SG
See Trapmaking for another example.
2) Requiring every single fucking NewCC recipe to include collectables
EDIT: 3) Missing a good number of effects available in OldCC
4) Creating NewCC with less flexibility than OldCC had.  And that doesn't even include the lack of flexible shards.

And now that they appear to have put some actual work into the new tables and such there's a zilch chance that they will respond to the very many players who have posted their objection to adding these new collectables in the various NewCC thread.

Asheras wrote on Jul 20^th, 2016 at 10:48pm:

I did, because soarwood is used to make airships = Ebberon.  It gives a fairly large hint in the name itself, even if you haven't played in a Ebberon campaign.  And I didn't.  Care that they could drop in FR, that is.  (Lore for not giving a fuck:  With all the traffic between Eberron and FR, some soarwood seeds were spilled on FR and now they are an invasive species)  All I'll care about now is whether the Lightning-split version has an increased or decreased drop rate.  All signs point to decreased, because no FR collectables are being removed from the Ebberon table, and they are adding a fuck-ton of new collectibles for a head-up-their-ass reason.

*just wonder how fucked up trapmaking is going to be by that update*

honestly, except for the perfect gearing for TR Trains, there's no point to use CC.
the only ( semi ) useful usage is for essences to make deadly traps and grenades.

for the rest, as I said long ago, the whole fucking collectable/crafting in DDO should have been thought as a complete and all encompassing crafting system.

you collect raw material ( they need to up the drop rate of said raw materials ), you refine them, you use them to craft items.
you collect raw material ( they need to up the drop rate of said raw materials ), you refine them, you use them to add powers to items.

recipes varies depending on what you're doing ( item or power to embed ).

anyway, I'm just interested/concerned by how fucked up trapmaking is going to be following this update... for the rest, I have heaps of essences sitting in the bank doing nothing and 3 bags of collecties from when I bothered to collect them, maybe I'll have some use for all that after the update. ( Right now I don't have a use, raid loot is sooo much better )

Bottlenecks, and how to not program them into your game:

Scenario: Play for X hours, picking up 100 items to melt for essences and 100 collectibles.

OldCC: Melt the items, and split the essences across 12 different types, some Lesser and some Greater.
Assumptions:  25% chance to make Greater Essences, 4 Greater Essences per instance.
Result: ~12.5 Greater Essences of each type per 100 items melted.

OldCC Bottleneck: At cap shard recipes take 20-40 Greater Essences each.  Shard collection is the bottleneck, with 0-1 shards able to be created per essence type, so ~4 shards per 100 items.
Collectables:  For leveling your OldCC skill no one cares, because you can always find a recipe that doesn't require any.  Only when you want to make a specific shard for actual crafting are you forced to expend collectibles.
==
Final Result: ~4 shards created for leveling your skill per 100 items and 100 collectibles.


NewCC: 100% chance to make 'greater' essence, since there is only one type.  And no splitting of the total number across 8 types.
Assumptions: 3 essences per melted item  (This is a complete WAG...  I have to plug in some numbers and this is what I chose)
Result: 300 NewEssences

NewCC Bottleneck:  Assuming the same 20-40 cost for shard creation, 175 NE should allow the creation of ~10 shards.
-BUT-
Collectables: All NewCC recipes will require collectables.  There are currently ~120 collectibles in the game (I'm not going to try to count them all, I logged on a long time char and that's how many unique types it had in the red bag).  They currently drop at ~3 different levels of frequency, since their primary use prior to NewCC was for turn-ins to collectors who wanted 3 different types, and their best rewards took the least common drops.
Who knows how many new collectables they are going to add.  I'll just use the current number and pretend they have a uniform drop rate for the purpose of this exercise. 
100 picks / 120 types = 0.8 of each collectible per 100 picks.*
They have promised 5 'level ranges' of collectibles, so 0.8 / 5 = 0.16 collectibles per level range.  This is only accurate if you're running content all over the place, level wise.  So let's leave it at 0.8 assuming you ran all the content at the same level range.  Then it's 120 collectible types / 5 ranges = 24 per range.  100 collectibles picked / 24 = ~4
Assuming 1 collectible per shard recipe then we get:
==
Final Result: ~4 shards created for leveling your skill per 100 items and 100 collectibles.

Now it may look like all things remain the same.  But consider this:  You're on a TR, but you'd still like to work on your NewCC skill.  Which is very high.  Once you've expended all the higher level collectibles you're out of luck.  You are done.  No more crafting for XP for you until you level up to the point where that level of collectible drops.
Bottleneck: Collectibles

Second, consider the player who is at cap and is intrigued by this NewCC system.  To build his skill he starts crafting shards.  And then runs out of the low level collectibles which are required to continue crafting.  He must new run low level content for the low level collectibles if he hopes to improve his NewCC skill.  Not wanting to waste his time with that pointless exercise, he gives up the idea of NewCC altogether.
Bottleneck: Collectibles


* Note that they have promised more collectibles, which will mean that all other things remaining the same the number of each collectible type per 100 picks will drop.  That doesn't have to reduce the number of shards able to be made in this hypothetical, so long as they manage to include a recipe for every collectible in the level range.  But it certainly could.