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Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? (Read 5624 times)

Tilo Ex Member	Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Jul 8^th, 2016 at 1:37am	Print Post
	Mmm just thinking at this point. 12 Fire savant Core 4 (21 AP) 5 Warlock SE T5 (34 AP) 3 Wiz AM T3 (13 AP) PM (6 AP) KTA 6 AP MoK + Eldritch Wave fueling immolation? Immolation stacking/Wave both fueling Shiradi procs. With triple wave crit, 3 stacks immolation? Will it give 6 shiradi chances? Will it activate LGS vacuum to max stacks in a single cast? Will it be enough mana with Feed on Magic 13 mana/wave? Does shiradi activate off base spell power or the 130% of wave? Immolation? Fiend/Int based/Dire Charge? Sense weakness twisted. 1 Evo 2 Arcane casts Cm at lvl 15... Was thinking if the gold and undead shiradi builds could be improved. Want to Dire Charge > Eldritch Wave and just have everything explode.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 2:04am by »

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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #1 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 2:17am	Print Post
	Tests: do warlock attacks with fiend fuel immolation? Iconic - stunning blast sorc/lock Spell power of such immolation Spell power of shiradi procs on existing warlock I have Immolation stack still count as a spell for procs. > verify with iconic just rewards sorc/fvs Seems relatively low on crit? This is going to be a ludicrous build if this all falls into place.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 2:20am by »

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #2 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 3:22am	Print Post
	Quote: Immolation stacking/Wave both fueling Shiradi procs. Have you tested Immolation procing shiradi? Quote: With triple wave crit, 3 stacks immolation? Not sure, seems likely to register as a triple cast similar to scorching ray on scourge stacks. But not true for empyrean stacking for some reason, despite same wording on the descriptions. It may act like Lantern/Resonation and be a one per cast limit(my guess is those are coded with a 1 second cooldown). Empyrean acts differently, there is not a cooldown, and it will trigger twice (2 stacks) off of a hellball on any number of ( a single/multiple) targets, when it double casts. I would guess Immolation is just like Scourge and Conflagration and coded the old way? Where as Empyrean, Lantern, and Resonation are from later updates with either a cooldown or a casting limit on them. Quote: Will it give 6 shiradi chances? Will it activate LGS vacuum to max stacks in a single cast? Why 6? Blasts trigger one proc regardless of the pact damage. Same for Bursts. Should be 3 procs assuming it follows. And a 4th if Immolation procs shiradi ticks. Testing to see if Vacuum would proc off Immolation would let you know how fast you could stack it. Assuming 3 chances per Wave. �
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 3:23am by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #3 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 3:27am	Print Post
	Quote: Does shiradi activate off base spell power or the 130% of wave? Immolation? That would be an interesting combo, but I think it won't due to shiradi procs using the current spell power from the appropriate damage type and not the spell used to cast them. Should be same for Immolation as well. I do not know if Immolation crits or scales with caster's spellpower.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #4 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:07am	Print Post
	I was thinking immolation was crit. It isn't. It is on cast. Eldritch wave may proc shiradi 3x and immolation 3x? Immolation itself does proc shiradi on application. Haven't tested but I read it somewhere. The AA one is a non-magic dot, like ninja poison, but the sorc one is a spell power/crit spell stack. So 6x procs off each wave? I think both immolation and shiradi procs work off final spell power of spell used to activate them, and each spell contains full spell power/crit information, even if it only does a single element of damage. Wave is 150%, not 130%. So if I toss a 400 all spell power wave, I think I get shiradi procs and immolation based on 600. Was planning on casting a 800 spell power wave, which would be 1200 spell power procs/immolation. At 6x procs, will give 7.2k spell power worth of shiradi procs per target. But that's not good enough. Dire charge/sense weakness will bump that up 80% on trash to 13k spell power worth of procs per target. It would be like a full 1k spell power chain missile spell per target hit. Or a bit better than that. Gota do some test iconics.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:20am by »

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #5 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:19am	Print Post
	Quote: I think both immolation and shiradi procs work off final spell power of spell used to activate them CDR did a thread showing evidence against this. Linked it in one of the threads here on shiradis. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425053-Shiradi-proc-damage-and-metas-a... The type of damage is based of the type of damage value the caster has for that specific damage source. He, however did not determine if they used the crit chance and multiplier of the spell they came from or the caster's appropriate spell power type. Teth and Sergod stated that the crit and mutliplier were based off of the original spell that they proc'd from, but this would not follow the spell power logic. I would still consider Teth and Sergod correct until someone can verify otherwise, as those guys play a lot of shiradi.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #6 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:25am	Print Post
	Quote: Immolation itself does proc shiradi on application Nice. Wall of Fire applying Empyrean: Wall can get an Empyrean proc for each mob that walked into the zone, but those stacks will all fade away instantly to 0. Maybe Empyrean will do the same for Immolation and proc on each application, but not disappear. I dont have a 12+ sorc in Crusader to test. Scourge stacks are stacked in the same fashion with Wall but they will maintain and not vanish. Also something odd to ponder, about hellball. When it double casts and procs 2 Empyrean stacks it will always only proc 3 Scourge stacks. It should be 2, but it's not. It also gives 3 when single cast, so
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:29am by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #7 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:27am	Print Post
	I think you are misreading them. They say metas have to be on originating spells. So max/empower has to be on fireball to get good sonic procs in shiradi. Therefore shiradi is using sonic spell power of fireball data for sonic procs. The fireball is doing fire damage, but it carries data with it on spell powers/crits other than fire for shiradi usage. That's why this is going to work. Fully meta eldritch wave. Say 800 all spell powers. Then multiply that large # by 150% scaling. So 1200 all spell powers is the final wave data. Then shiradi is going to use that 1200 data for its procs. 3x. Then that data is going to get transfered hopefully to immolate 3x at 1200 all spell power. Then that data is going to get transfered from immolate to shiradi again 3x for 1200 all spell power. Basically, I'll know this works if the game freezes up when I do it.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #8 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:39am	Print Post
	Quote: So max/empower has to be on fireball to get good sonic procs in shiradi. metas apply to all procs if they were on for the originating spells. Quote: - Shiradi procs use the spellpower of the proc type, not the originating spell type. - Maximize and Empower from the originating spell do add spellpower to shiradi procs. - Maximize and Empower must be on the originating spell - having global toggles on and originating spell toggles "always off" doesn't work. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425053-Shiradi-proc-damage-and-metas-a... If you are referring to the procs from the Shiradi ED cores, Atomicmew tested those. AtomicMew wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2016 at 4:34am: A long, long time ago I did some tests to determine which lore tier 4 sonic procs use (force or sonic lore).� I re-did this test after resetting destiny, enhancements and removing all counter sources (MOK, empyrean magic, etc.) Conditions: sonic_sp = 300 sonic_crit_chance = 0.07 force_crit_chance = 0.30 multiplier = 0.5 (0.25 LGS, 0.25 scion of fire) + 2 base Results: http://i.imgur.com/zDCaJnN.png Blue = empirical distribution Purple = simulated distribution with force crit chance Gray = simulated distribution with sonic crit chance Dotted = distributions with weighted dice Conclusions: 1) Sonic procs don't use weighted dice, as previously suspected 2) Sonic procs USE SONIC LORE to determine critical chance http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1464712462/31#31
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:41am by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #9 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:53am	Print Post
	Ya I know how that works. But that is 2013 before warlocks and their wonky SP scaling. I� need to do some iconic testing sometime when I have more time. Immolation stacking on warlock abilities Immolation scaling on warlock abilities with 130-150% SP multipliers Does immolation crit on application fuel just rewards to verify it counts as a spell on application Shiradi proc scaling on warlock abilities with 130-150% SP multipliers It takes a lot of work to put together even a modification of an existing build. Maybe I should put this off a few months while I play around with electrickery. If you want to do the tests, I'll put together the final build.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 4:59am by »

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #10 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 5:00am	Print Post
	Quote: Ya I know how that works. But that is 2013 before warlocks and their wonky SP scaling. I haven't seen anything that would make me think this is a thing, Arcane Bolt and Blast both scale with spellpower, but they don't suddenly make my shiradi procs significantly stronger than the other spells.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #11 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 5:01am	Print Post
	Quote: It takes a lot of work to put together even a modification of an existing build. Maybe I should put this off a few months while I play around with electrickery. If you want to do the tests, I'll put together the final build. I have a 15 sorc iconic mule, and a 18/2 warlock mule, but no EDs leveled.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 5:02am by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #12 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 6:22am	Print Post
	Matrix multiplication. Ahh nvm. I'll get to it eventually. Be a few months. Maybe lammania will come up by then.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2016 at 6:29am by »

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Mokune Shroud Slacker Offline Gimped Hairless Ape Posts: 1115 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2011	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #13 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 7:01am	Print Post
	Sounds promising.

	Welcome to your sexually transmitted death sentence served in a shit-machine meat suit.
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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #14 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 5:18pm	Print Post
	Mm only the aura will give immolation stacks. 1 lock 1 13 sorc 21 Fire savant 6 wiz 33 AM 8 harper KTA would have to toggle aura on and off based on building mok stacks, not that efficient. Aura will give double chance of shiradi procs at 130% spell power though due aura > immolation stack. Not so bad either. Mmm i guess overall I don't like it. Not enough burst for me. Sadface for eldritch wave - fiend not counting as a fire spell.� Immolation is the most powerful enhancement a sorc has by far. I just don't see how to make good use of it.
	« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2016 at 12:57am by »

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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #15 - Jul 13^th, 2016 at 11:07am	Print Post
	Quote: Immolation itself does proc shiradi on application. Haven't tested but I read it somewhere. The AA one is a non-magic dot, like ninja poison, but the sorc one is a spell power/crit spell stack. I don't think this is true. It's been a while since I rolled a fire savant though. It should retick on each proc of a multi-hit spell, but not scale to spellpower or crit. (It does scale with vulnerability and helplessness though.)

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Mokune Shroud Slacker Offline Gimped Hairless Ape Posts: 1115 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2011	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #16 - Jul 13^th, 2016 at 1:06pm	Print Post
	Did you try Eldritch Ball? Not ideal but /shrug. (was wondering if MoK stacked with eldritch ball too but hadn't tested)

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #17 - Jul 13^th, 2016 at 3:21pm	Print Post
	Mokune wrote on Jul 13^th, 2016 at 1:06pm: (was wondering if MoK stacked with eldritch ball too but hadn't tested) only arcane bolt and blast build stacks. Eldritch Ball has same animation as Hellball and can doublecast the same way.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Mokune Shroud Slacker Offline Gimped Hairless Ape Posts: 1115 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2011	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #18 - Jul 14^th, 2016 at 7:23am	Print Post
	Hmm, I havn't seen it double-cast like hell ball. I could never figure out and reliably repeat exactly what was causing hell ball to do it. Was on a wizard getting an EPL=>HPL so didn't investigate more than 2 minutes total. /shrug

	Welcome to your sexually transmitted death sentence served in a shit-machine meat suit.
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Tilo Ex Member	Re: Shiradi Zombified Sorc-lock? Reply #19 - Jul 14^th, 2016 at 4:13pm	Print Post
	I think it is the hitting a wall or something else shortly after passing through the primary target. Maybe jump cast it through something into the floor at short range.


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