hydra wrote on Aug 8^th, 2017 at 3:30pm:

I'll concede that it is possible some of the servers are more of a ghost town than others.  I only know what G-land is like. 

If that really is the case on Thelanis, I'd transfer to a more populated server if it were me. 

After all, it's not like it's realistic to sit around hoping that SSG will suddenly start making good marketing decisions, fix their customer service levels, and make great content to generate a sudden influx of new and returning players that will stick around for more than a month.

I'm aware that packing up and transferring to a new server sucks when your guild had a fully decked out airship with all the amenities, but not being able to find groups and fill LFMs when you want to group with people sucks, too.   Airships can be built back up.   Server populations, not so much.

For the record, G-land has a pretty friendly and active public LFM scene as long as you're not a jackass.  I see nightly LFMs for everything from EN XP speed runs to EH, EE, and R1+ on my capped toon.

As far as 110 sustainable...

22 deep gnome
7 tome
7 levels
17 item
7 insight
4 quality
2 litany
1 globe
2 festive
2 artifact
2 ship
6 destiny
2 yugo
2 store/remnant
2 acute twist
1 twist
1 feat
4 completionist
10 kensai
2 aa
2 dws
1 human pl
4 water

You don't have to have racial completionist or even 6 racial ap since there are a few other ways to increase it.  110 sustained is quite possible.

Digimonk wrote on Aug 8^th, 2017 at 12:10pm:


The Wiki's goal is not to show a best practices wisdom score for any particular build.  That would be too fluid and too prone to interpretation.  The Wiki is trying to show an exhaustive list of every possible source that can be stacked, as a reference for builders who can then decide which ones make the most sense for any particular build.  Hopefully reminding them or informing them of sources they may not have been aware of. 

It goes without saying that chasing max theoretical of any stat has diminishing returns and, typically, the trade offs required end up weakening the build past a certain point.

 

Asheras wrote on Aug 9^th, 2017 at 9:00am:

Yes, we know the wiki is showing the theoretical max.   That's my point.  It's a "theoretical" max that nobody with half a brain would actually use for a real build.  As such, it's a waste of time discussing it here.  The wiki already has the theory covered.  No need to rehash it since it doesn't apply to real-world, useful builds.

Unless of course I missed someone asking for a build that would suck?

Asheras wrote on Aug 7^th, 2017 at 4:20pm:

As of right now, 99% of this superiority is in the Cleric trees.

It is notably absent from FvS because there AREN'T any good FvS trees. Arguably, there never have been (at least not since we've had trees).

From how I read their description, these changes mean that you can go "full retard" in either WIS or CHA, and that either stat will determine DCs, SP and whatever. No ability splitting like before.

That effectively kills the advantage for Cleric, since FvS will now use the stronger of whatever stat for casting DCs.

For melees, FvS should come out ahead, because granted Deity feats give Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. Admittedly, those are shite Domain Favoured Weapons, but the principle stands.

Wasn't that the whole premise behind all the Silvanus Maul builds? That and Pulverizer from LD...

Cleric's advantage in Healing is solely because of Aura, and when I rolled mine, I didn't even bother with it. Everyone is so geared for Hamp and self-heals that it was unnecessary. Hell, I didn't even slot a Devotion/ Healing Lore item.

I doubt that'll change significantly, even with Reaper gimping self-heals. If you're soloing, you'll waste even less time building to it because your focus will be on relevant stats for casting DCs or DPS.

Ultimately, the real determining factor will be the new/revamped trees, which is assuming SSG even bother with them and doesn't try to load all the benefits into class features.

Changing FvS into a "Divine Sorc" won't really fix what's wrong with a FvS.

If we can all recollect, there was a time when the only viable option for Arcane was Sorc, because: Deeper SP pool, more DPS, same effective DCs based on a single stat, faster casting times, loss of spells was all but meaningless because there weren't that many spells that were actually useful.

They devoted and entire Wiki page to it as a matter of fact: http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_usefulness

Those factors all but killed anyone playing a Wizard for years, except for grinding the Past Life ("But Pale Master!" you cry. Yes... But even that was a niche build that required patience and gear to work, and it had some severe limitations, especially after the nerfs to Wail of the Banshee).

And that's what we'd be looking at with Cleric, which is already an unpopular class to begin with. Don't even TRY to mention Turn Undead, it's so pointless (currently).

I could support adding more spells for Arcane and Divine and making them class exclusive, but we all remember Cordo's "Spellz is Hard Yo!" whinging, so that's a pipe dream.

Time will tell how this plays out but I am (at least for now) looking forward to rolling my Dwarf FvS and not being useless as tits on a bull for 12 levels.

tl;dr: It will depend on the new FvS enhancements.

Metal-Beast wrote on Aug 9^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:

Have you seen the cleric domains?  For casters especially, they are vastly unbalancing.

Metal-Beast wrote on Aug 9^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:


Really?  So you prefer +4 to attack and Damage with a single weapon type vs. War Domain having +5 to attack and Damage, +10 MP, All Martial and Exotic Proficiencies for free, +10 to tactics and Holy Sword SLA for a better crit profile?  FvS come out on top there, do they? 

What about Strength Domain?  +12 to Strength (+6 to hit and Damage and tactics DC's), Strength for reflex save, immune to knock downs and immune to stuns. 

Come on.  FvS's deity weapons are not making up the domain advantages.  Be serious.  You think the TREES will fix this?  WRONG.  CLerics and FvS share warpriest tree.  Whatever buffs the FvS gets, the cleric gets too.  The domains vs. the deity feats is the only difference.

Metal-Beast wrote on Aug 9^th, 2017 at 1:24pm:


Trees gives the Fvs +1 to Evo.  Cleric can choose +2 to Evo or Necro.  FvS can add to that...nothing.  Cleric can add (via domains) +2 to all schools or +4 to any school they want.  So, pick your poison.  You can't make a better FvS DC caster than Cleric for Evo, Necro, or Enchant.  You think the trees are going to give FvS a boost of +5 to Evocation?  Or +6 to Necro?  or +4 to Enchant?  Go on with that...

Trees give the FvS 1 SLA.  Cleric gets 4 new DPS spells in spell book that FvS doesn't get and 4 SLA's.  Clerics can add (from domains) 3 more offensive SLA's and 40 more Light/Fire Spell power.  Even with a deeper SP Pool, you can't make a better nuker.   You think the trees are going be changed to give the FvS 6 more SLA's?  Cause that's how many they are behind by. 

 The cleric trees are already better than the FvS trees.  you pile on the domains and the gap becomes so large, no tree can make up the distance.

Frank wrote on Aug 10^th, 2017 at 9:23am:

I think you misunderstood. 

Yes, we tell him the easy way.  He then makes excuses and promptly ignores that advice because it doesn't fit his idiotic, unrealistic world view and continues to do things the hard way and continues to bitch about it being hard.

He's essentially the guy that repeatedly slams his head into a wall and complains that it hurts while all the bystanders are telling him to walk through the open door 3 feet to the left.

SirValentine wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 2:17pm:

Do you meant enhance trees?  Because fvs aren't getting domains.

What they are getting is a band-aid applied to a sucking chest wound, in the hopes that it will stave off the complaints that cleric domains makes fvs irrelevant.  And while I'm more than happy to see them at least try to keep fvs relevant when they update clerics, all the bitching on the forums (take a peek, there is a shitload of "do it right or don't do it at all" posts in that thread) makes me wonder how long it will be before SSG just pulls a turn undead maneuver and goes "All the feedback says that people like things the way they are now, so we won't be changing fvs at all anymore."

And really, the two 'new' threads on domains and fvs changes are already a huge bait and switch.

Here's what was said just 2 months ago:

Quote:

And now it's:
Quote:

So out with turn undead, out with any work on enhance trees (any why are they so hard to get done?), and out with a 3rd fvs tree.  All that's left is the answer to his own question: "If this is the case, what would Favored Soul need as part of their base class?" and domains.

And the tree work pushed back to the vaporware state of "we're working on it."  Well they aren't, or it would have gotten itself done.

In domains they gutted the war domain and so any improvements to a melee cleric or fvs will have to wait for the vaporware pass on war priest.  And outside of melee where were cleric behind a fvs anyway?  Having a lot of mana that goes away fast because you have no slas* isn't something clerics needed to hope to catch up with.

* And the "pick one only, deity dependent, requires 20 levels in fvs, grants a low level spell" sla in aov does not count.  "Hey look guys!  I just hit level 20 and my deity now allows me to cast luck cape for free!"

A lot of the discussion and complaints both here and on main forums will be lessened and/or different when they release more stuff.  They are working on many things just have to wait some more.  Right now people have some jigsaw pieces and are trying to make a picture.  Wait for all the pieces.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2017 at 3:19am:

Wrong.  Dumbass.

Trollero wrote on Aug 14^th, 2017 at 2:13am:

You mean like all the arties, FvS and clerics who were told how many years ago to wait for their class pass?   

Asheras wrote on Aug 14^th, 2017 at 6:39am:


Whatever you say, Penelope.

Asheras wrote on Aug 15^th, 2017 at 8:40am:


lol.  Good shit mang.