Bigjunk wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:49am:


I don't understand how you say you have no problem with wizard but have with sorc. It's the same thing but you have more sp, dps, wings, play in EA and no trade offs.

Vaultaccount wrote on Jan 25^th, 2018 at 6:09pm:


I'm exaggerating for comedic affect, and apparently failing at that.   

Exalted Angel, the Epic Destiny.

I was thinking about the difference in the DC and actually wizards can get A LOT more DC than sorcerer or warlock. To start with, on a realistic build that isn't full retart for R10 (that means doesn't skip max), only wizards have room for 2x necro focus feat, completionist, wiz pl and spellpen. The other casters have to skip the necro focus feats. Or they skip spellpen but the monsters that have it, the flameskulls, are specially deadly and you don't want to be missing them.

To start with I'll clear the difference between warlock and sorc in necro DC. Sorcs have 9 lv of spell and warlocks have 6. But warlocks get 1 DC from SE, 1 from a better capstone and possibly 1 from TS. Both are feat starved and can't buy spell focus necro. So the DC is equal or sorcs have 1 more if warlock is taking tier 5 in SE, wich is probably better.

So doing the numbers for an archmage, then let's see for a PM. Will make only for necro, as enchant you have enough even on DPS builds. This is comparing to a sorc

- From archmage tree you get 2 DC more
- Get 1 DC more because you can take 4 INT from harper (dump pale master tree), not avaliable for CHA
- 1 more DC from festive INT, not avaliable for CHA
- 2 more DC from greater spell focus
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6 DC

But you loose 3 DC from EA, and about half a DC from not being in EA (that offers 8 CHA, but on magister you don't have to twist necro focus so EA offers 1 more stat than magister)
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2.5 more DC than sorc.

Now for pale masters:

- Get 1 DC from archmage tree
- Get 2 more DC from lich INT
- Get 1 more DC from lich
- Get 1 DC from PM tree
- 1 more DC from festive INT, not avaliable for CHA
- 2 more DC from greater spell focus
- 2 more DC from abbot helm popping 24/7
- loose 3.5 DC from being in magister
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6.5 DC more than sorc

Let's say 6. That's 30% more effectiveness, coming at the cost of basically doing no DPS, no wings, playing undead and in magister, less SP pool. You get working reflexes, imunnity to horrid wilting, enervation SLA.

Not sure if it's worth. Clearly going archmage is not. but for PM... 6 DC is a hell lot, but then you have a character that doesn't do anything but DC casting, and it's not like people are playing R10 every day. I mean ok, you do damage with spells, but it's totally garbage and costs too much for the spell point pool.

Vaultaccount wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 8:14pm:

i think it should 

As I posted above the DC difference from Archmage jsut doesn't justify. If you are running a pale master, then you have the big problem of being undead.

Also there are some things that make it even worse for wizards. Assuming you do take full necro focus line feats on a sorcerer, wich is totally viable, you end up with same DC on both wizard or archmage, and PMs get 4.5 more (talking about necro, rest I don't care much).

Also no matter what, you'll always be better in Angel than in Magister, even if you are undead: the cost is one twist and spellpen (that you don't need). Wings alone is worth more than one twist, the rest of the destiny is all goodies: heals, self raise, more SP.

And you want to use EK tree on wizard, to get medium armor, arcane barrier and 10 PRR from shield. So cut down the DC from archamge tree (if you are PM), or from harper int (if you are archmage).

At this point the sorc DC will be 1 point better than archamge DC, and Pale Master will be 3 above sorcerer, IF you consider PM is getting 2 points from abbot helm and sorc is getting zero. If it isn't, than PM is only 1 point better than sorcerer.

You add to all that the fact that sorc has less cooldown times and cast faster (even considering quicken), I don't see why one should play a wizard at all.

I mean, there is the PK shit, but I just don't care. I don't think it's worth using that spell, let the melee kill what you didn't do with necro.

And the itemmization for INT is much more problematic: the only 20 int item avaliable is an orb, wich locks you out of LGS, so you can't have 2 exceptional and 20 int at same time, while being CHA based you can get that... while also having the benefit of slotting amp and affirmation and maybe insight con or more devotion on the same item.

The only item with insightful int +9 is a dps ring, while the boots with +9 cha are a lot sexier, if you are not using a TF armor.

You are pretty much forced into using a Phasecloak, a valuable slot for insightful prr, but that can be worked around depending where you slot your slaver items. That is probably going to trinket so you can put iprr and dodge.

You have to slot festive INT.

You get +2 more to all dcs from pm from the extra 4 int from loch + shroud t5

Without gimping your build your running at 122 sustained int while doing r10s

Vaultaccount wrote on Mar 30^th, 2018 at 1:00pm:


Gimp justification. Love your work.

When I was an arcane I didn't care about any DC other than necro. If you have enough necro to be effective, that means your enchant, conjuration, transmutation and evocation are going to work anyways. It's not like you need 110 enchant. You could make a point about illusion, but it's more for playstyle. I didn't like using illusion because it's single target and has 2 saves, so I think it's not worth using and investing for, considering the cost in attention and player time to cast, a thing many forget, for me I think it's more effective to cast a mass spell and a finger at most, after that focus on healing and not getting killed.

that's why the thread is called best reaper endgame caster and not max dc wiz