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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) My Shitty Tempest (Read 97069 times)
acidpickachu
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #100 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:04pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 1:35pm:
Too bad they drop the same on r10 and r1, so no skull pushing incentives there.


higher skulls increase chance at reaper/mythic gear, but not in the way you are thinking. reaper/mythic bonuses never increase in probability, but due to the 1% named droprate increase per skull you have a higher chance of pulling a named item....that has reaper/mythic.
  
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #101 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 4:24am
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Knights training has a BaB requirement that you arent hitting at level 1
  
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #102 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 7:36am
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Justanotherlurker wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 4:24am:
Knights training has a BaB requirement that you arent hitting at level 1

BAB 4, so just push it to level 6. adjusted the feats.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #103 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 9:45am
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Ok.. I'm confused..

Saw you updated/edited the feats... why the Khopesh EWP?
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #104 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 10:05am
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ZooperDooper wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 9:45am:
Ok.. I'm confused..

Saw you updated/edited the feats... why the Khopesh EWP?

On bosses if no one else has Fetters, then Calamity beats anything else in your offhand. You could just use Flow for the purpose of getting Fetters stacked and replace EWP:K.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #105 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 10:22am
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acidpickachu wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:04pm:
higher skulls increase chance at reaper/mythic gear, but not in the way you are thinking. reaper/mythic bonuses never increase in probability, but due to the 1% named droprate increase per skull you have a higher chance of pulling a named item....that has reaper/mythic.


That's what I'm saying

Vaultaccount wrote on Jan 15th, 2019 at 10:29am:
In my experience elite always dropped more loot than any other diff, including reaper. But assuming Lyn is right, so you  have 1% more chance per skull for dropping named, that doesn't mean you have more chance that the named you dropped comes with reaper bonus on r1 than r10. Still... it's 9% more chance to get an item be it gem food or what you want


Doesn't look worth the risk and time. They have to adjust that and make it really worth it to run on higher skulls. And change the xp too, so that r10 becomes more intresting than r8
  
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #106 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 10:32am
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 7:05pm:
Strength based Tempest should be significantly ahead on dps now over dexterity based versions due to Razor + Whelm and Knight's Training. Razor is essentially a Calamity with 2 extra weapon dice, and Whelm is a Calamity but with an extra OC feat. And Whelm turns Razor into Calamity with 2 more weapon dice and an extra OC tacked on.

This is what I have for Str based.


I wonder if you are scourge and have action points to spend, a set of house J maces do more DPS. I feel they don't, but would be intresting to know if someone tested
  
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kozmo
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #107 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 1:21pm
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the doublestrike shouldnt stack with silent avenger. only MP and offhand DS.
« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2019 at 7:05am by kozmo »  
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Rubbinns
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #108 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 1:24pm
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Vaultaccount wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 10:32am:
I wonder if you are scourge and have action points to spend, a set of house J maces do more DPS. I feel they don't, but would be intresting to know if someone tested

Might be worth trying out. The scourge crit multi and knight training crit threat make the Beacons come out to have the same critical profiles that Calamity, Whelm, and Razor have on Tempests in LD. 16-18 x4, 19-20 x7.

The difference comes down to dice, razor is 52 total damage, Whelm is 37, and Beacons are 45. This is unadjusted damage so it gets higher once scaled through critical profiles and melee power. Razor wins out if stacked with 20 mp and 20 damage, because 20 damage is huge. Obviously once razor is supercharged nothing beats it.

Otherwise, Beacons might just be higher due to 15% offhand doublestrike, and 15 melee power. Which should be enough to beat the larger base damage on Razor and an extra OC feat from Whelm.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #109 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:33pm
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The asamir fallen vuln stacks apply much slower than vacuum. On trash the fetters is noticeable but scourge vuln is not. I don't know how this changes anyone's decisions but it's good to keep in mind. For example, it takes 20 seconds to get 20 stacks of vuln on a fallen asamir, but less than a second to fully stack fetters.

On a raid boss like KT a caster should apply these debuffs so that the melee can focus.
E.x., Warlock DC caster can apply every PRR/MRR debuff and also rebuke
Use korthos light wand (for rebuke stacks) in main hand with dust in off hand. Swap dust for ooze every 6 seconds.

I suppose a weapon swap macro isn't too bad though for TWF melee. How fast can we do it before server lag starts eating the swaps?
« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:47pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Rubbinns
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #110 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 6:27pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:33pm:
I suppose a weapon swap macro isn't too bad though for TWF melee. How fast can we do it before server lag starts eating the swaps?

Hotkeying the weapon swap is feasible as long as the offhand weapon is being swapped out only. Swapping the mainhand out with filigree can cause delays.

I go through Dust swap every 6 to 8 seconds, I time it with exposing strike's cooldown. This allows 6 to 8 seconds of higher weapon dps and ensures enough time for Dust to proc a stack and some slight lag.

Vacuum can't be swapped out due to low countdown and losing stacks. So for dps testing Vacuum should always be a permanent offhand weapon, only getting swapped out shortly for maintaining dust stacks.

For kobold tests ; it probably ends up being start test with Vacuum in the mainhand and Dust offhand. Then swap to Razor mainhand and Vacuum in offhand after the first 4 seconds of attacks (haste boosted) build up the Vac + Dust stacks.

As for offhand lower hit rate of 1.35, my tempest had these results with Dust and Vacuum stacking :

 
Dust 1 stack on hit, no icd. Drops all 5 stacks after 11th second.
TWF offhand rate 100% + 35% offhand doublestrike.

4 to 8 seconds to fully stack.

Haste boosted 3 to 5 seconds.

Fetters 2 to 6 stacks a hit, but lower proc % than Dust, no icd. Drops 1 stack every 2 seconds.

6 to 14 seconds to fully stack.

Haste boosted 4 to 7.


  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #111 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:01pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 7:05pm:
Strength based Tempest should be significantly ahead on dps now over dexterity based versions due to Razor + Whelm and Knight's Training.


Wis-based gets to use Razor + Whelm too.
  

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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #112 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:17pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:01pm:
Wis-based gets to use Razor + Whelm too.

Falconry version gets more trash dps by trading killer for helpless. Combine it with horc and it becomes the highest trash dps tempest version possible, by far.

DWS still wins out on boss damage from crit threat, exposing strike, sneak dice, bonus damage to favored, and bonus damage to injured enemy. Should edge out on long raid boss fights.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #113 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:19pm
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With the +2 racial AP tome (and racial completionist), you can do 42 in Tempest, 26 in Falcon, 11 in DWS, and 14 in racial.
  

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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #114 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 4:45pm
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Man 14 AP.
  

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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #115 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 5:14pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 4:45pm:
Man 14 AP.

Horc's entire advantage is in its stacking helpless modifier and that is 16 ap. You could just go Horc for 16 and DWS, Str based and deal slightly less (10%) helpless damage but a lot more raw dps. If going Falconry then it makes a lot more sense to grab Horc helpless and stack the 20% together for a 50% total bonus.

That is worth the raw dps loss from Falconry ap, And the advantage is tremendously more trash erasing capability than other versions.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #116 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 5:28pm
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kozmo wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 1:21pm:
the doublestrike shouldnt stack with silent avenger. only MP and offhand DS. so they dont bring that much to the table


could become a thing if sharn gear break the set
  
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #117 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:53am
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I was suggesting 14 racial for a scourge aasimar build

If you wanted a horc tempest, you could do 41 in Tempest, 25 in Falcon, 11 in DWS, and 16 in racial. You lose duration on Deadly Instinct, and have a lower % of "improved" evasion.

Or wait for 2 more races/tome upgrades to come out.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:54am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #118 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 4:25pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:53am:
I was suggesting 14 racial for a scourge aasimar build

If you wanted a horc tempest, you could do 41 in Tempest, 25 in Falcon, 11 in DWS, and 16 in racial. You lose duration on Deadly Instinct, and have a lower % of "improved" evasion.

Or wait for 2 more races/tome upgrades to come out.  Cheesy

Horc needs to be 18 for 20% helpless. Probably end up dropping the crit range from dws core. Horc over 1 threat is still way more trash dps.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #119 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 4:45pm
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On my monk, going Falconry felt like a trap even though there was a gear simplification and I got sprint boost. The WIS-versions of other builds look similar. You're going to lose dps/QOL and then have to gear wisdom---when dex gearing is already super easy because of the belt. Of course this could change in the next update---but there's a lot of ways to boost your STR rather than your WIS and Deepwood is a superior tree (in general). The only time I feel like Falconry makes sense is on a Cleric or another class that doesn't have two good offensive AP-trees. (Maybe fighter for example.) KTA is less AP than the falconry version and does the same thing, so when you're building falconry you're doing it for sprint boost, OK stuns, 5% hp, TS, and the 30% helpless damage.

I would never play a pure fighter ATM though because of how they get locked into a weapon type. Fuck I think melee clerics and FvS are in a better place.
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2019 at 4:50pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #120 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:48pm
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The falconry tempest seems alright if it combines horc helpless. Should win kill counts if you're counting those as this is anywhere from 20-50% higher helpless dps. The gear set is pretty much what I would run on the Str setup. Necklace has 20 wisdom. Just swap ins str on trinket, swap q str on slaver.


There are only a few optimal choices for races on a Tempest, imo.

Scourge gets a permanent 6% melee power, and a 5% doublestrike bonus, plus str nodes.

Aasimar gets 3 to damage vs evil, 10% mp, wis/str nodes, and a clicky for 1 minute of 5 str and 5 doublestrike. Scourge is probably the highest sustained dps over time on long fights that take longer than a few minutes. Aasimar are better for quest dps where clickies get replenished often and are more effective vs non-raid boss hp.

Horc gets damage bonuses, helpless and str nodes. Easily the best trash dps. And Elves for the accuracy increase for the highest to-hit.

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #121 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:50pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 7:05pm:
As for the feats, you probably drop Sneak of Shadows and swap to Arborea over Ethereal. Dust and Vacuum are too good now and Razor + Whelm is larger base damage than any other combination prior.


I'm wondering this myself, if the damage we're seeing with PRR debuffing is the new normal (as in this isn't rolled back or nerfed) front number > sneak attack.  The 20 MPs gotta pay more than hide to sneak.

How's this changing the meta?  Barbs and fighters have higher front-numbers than rangers and rogues, is the prr-debuffing enough to put them back on the board?
  
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #122 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:57pm
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And I'm not changing shit on my gear until Sharn  Smiley

Except weapons of course.
  
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #123 - Feb 13th, 2019 at 4:03am
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Bigjunk wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:50pm:
I'm wondering this myself, if the damage we're seeing with PRR debuffing is the new normal (as in this isn't rolled back or nerfed) front number > sneak attack.  The 20 MPs gotta pay more than hide to sneak.


Hard to answer. 1 sneak damage is scaled by 150% of mp, use 250 mp on tempests, 1 x 4.75 per 1 sneak damage. 4.75 on a tempest prowess boosting and blitzing, with decent mythic gear. Using 100 hide, 158.3 an attack from Ethereal. 

Mathing what exactly 20 mp does is kind of complicated. I would just estimate it to be around an average of 100 an attack scaled for dust and vacuum, after adjusting for weapon profile of 16-20 x4-7 on a Razor. And assuming the build does 140 damage per swing before weapon profile and mp ( base unadjusted ).

It looks like ethereal's sneak damage on tempests is still ahead as long as the tempest is getting around 65% sneak attack uptime. Sneak damage also bypasses grazing hits giving another advantage.

For trash Arborea wins out against helpless. Fury shooters arborea all the way. Maybe even arborea for wolves, and thf/swf barbs and fighters. 


   

« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2019 at 4:04am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: My Shitty Tempest
Reply #124 - Feb 13th, 2019 at 11:15am
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If they dump a bunch of melee/ranged power on us, or a ton of hide, then ethereal will pull ahead in sharn. If they give us more base damage, better crit profile, or more PRR debuff then arborea will probably pull ahead. In the long run arborea should pull ahead since it simply scales fucking everything. This just has to do with how things scale.

It's comedically possible that the other scion of "spellpower-damage" feats could pull ahead if they dump 1000 easy spellpower on us. Then there's Celestia for 150 hp. But dodge is what's keeping us alive now---not really massive hit point pools.

~

Ethereal scales with:
- hide (so skill bonuses + dex) 
-150% melee/ranged power
- attack speed/doublestrike

Arborea scales with:
- base damage
- base sneak attack damage
- PRR reduction
- crit range and multiplier bonuses
- 100% melee/ranged power
- attack speed/doublestrike

Earth/Air/Fire/Water/Feywild feats scale with:
- spellpower (so spell power bonuses + skill bonuses + int)
- attack speed/doublestrike

Celestia has 150 hit points.
« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2019 at 11:18am by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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