THF builds are almost non-existent in DDO currently. Unless you're a wolf. This is largely due to how poorly reaper was implemented and never played or tested by the devs that make these things up on a whim. THF was built on the premise of glancing blows delivering AoE damage to multiple targets. Now, this works extremely well on elite and low skulls. It's once we start entering high skulls that its sole niche loses all application. Doing 60-80% of your base damage is really underwhelming after reaper scaling. Combined with how glances do not scale with critical hits, do not scale with helpless damage, cannot doublestrike, and we are essentially cheated out of THF's effectiveness in high skulls.


What avenues can we pursue here to bring some balance to THF builds, while not further pushing wolves, or eroding the lines between TWF/SWF/THF focused builds? I have a suggestion. But first let's start with what we should avoid doing to not make THF have the focused boss dps of the other 2 styles, and while also keeping wolves from being any more dps heavy than they already are. These are vital restrictions.

We probably want to avoid allowing glances to scale with critical hits. Scaling with critical hits would only serve to make THF the best dps option any melee could choose. Increasing its focused boss dps substantially would only negate the niche that TWF/SWF offer. And allowing twitch fighting with this advantage would be even worse for melee balance. Doublestrikes alone on glances are still poor because 60-80% of your base non-critical, and non-helpless damage is still scaled down to start with. If they were In conjunction with Critical rolls, then it would be too good to not use almost exclusively.  Boosting trash and boss dps simultaneously might be enough to invalidate almost all other styles. 

That leaves helpless damage as the main way to boost THF dps and bring it in line with what its original intended purpose was : to have the best aoe trash damage on melees. Right now that niche is better performed by whirlwind monks and dance of death builds. Both are TWF builds. That THF cannot occupy the top spots on this list then they are not doing anything relevant. Make the change apply only to THF. The only classes desired that are directly benefiting would be Fighters, Barbarians, and Paladins.

Helpless damage would still be affected by the appropriate rate of the glancing blow damage reduction of 60-80% less. These cannot critically hit. The high number of helpless damage on base attacks would cover this area well from a design perspective. Helpless damage and glancing blow damage would become more easily finely tuned by itemization, feats, or class abilities going further. Raising the values on either slider through a wide array of means. 

5 Foot Step wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 4:49pm:

That isn't a completely different, new system, that potentially bugs out lots of associated and random other things. And that is a lot more damage than a few hundred points in r10.

Skoodge wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 5:20pm:


I dunno, wolf builds are fun, TWF Rangers and Fighters are fun.   Rogue Vistani Assassin builds are fun.   You didn't list any tank builds, really.  Which I don't personally enjoy too much but there are people who do, and several options for those with Arti, FIghter, Pally, Cleric etc.   And are important for some of the fights that matter.  The new Knight Training feat is probably to go expand some weapons options out there for the melee builds.  The number of classes that suck are fewer than the number that are good and viable.   THF is just one of those few that needs some tweaks.   

Skoodge wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 5:20pm:

I always played with the game sounds off. That is, until I discovered something even more fun: turning the game off.

Revaulting wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2019 at 8:08pm:

Start DDO. Exit DDO. Profit.

What if we keep it as an epic feat with GTHF as the prerequisite, and only while the THF icon is up on the buff bar. That should keep it out of heroics where THF is already really powerful, and unrivaled at early levels. It prevents SWF builds from using it. Only targets trash mobs that are helpless. Scales easily with reaper debuff scaling already. Scales well in elite.

I kinda like what Chip said to some degree.  Not sure about how to balance it totally.

One thing I was thinking when I read that:  I was watching Return of the King the other day.   So the Witch King swings that big ass flail (is that what you'd call that?) .  Sure he is one handing it because he's like 10 feet tall, but the impact that weapon has on the enemy is interesting.   It shatters the shield and breaks the arm of Eyown.  She also can't as easily attack because of the reach of the weapon.  So a THF style could incorporate some sort of slow effect/attack speed debuff on the enemy mobs.   Or it could, as described above by Chip have a stun or sundering effect on hit (maybe percent chance, or save, or on crit).   I could be an AoE or affect multiple mobs.   All of that sounds interesting. 

Something to think about.   Would make the style different than TWF and SWF and provide some defense (if doing a slow/attack speed debuff or stuns/trips), maybe helpless damage (if doing stuns).   But none of that would affect bosses.

It does feel like THF should have some kind of inherent advantage on tactics.

Edrein wrote on Jan 29^th, 2019 at 8:18pm:

I think what you mean is that you don't recognize attacking as a tactic.

Edrein wrote on Jan 29^th, 2019 at 8:18pm:


Not sure I agree 100%.  From the standpoint of game "tactics" sundering would be a lot more effective with a THF weapon than sword and board.   

As far as general fighting tactics, anyone who has ever fenced or boxed knows that having the longer reach is a form of tactical advantage.  On that can be used.

Quote:


https://www.etymonline.com/word/tactics?ref=etymonline_crossreference

Rubbinns wrote on Jan 24^th, 2019 at 8:07pm:


This in my opinion. Big dick rubbins is at it again

Revaulting wrote on Jan 31^st, 2019 at 3:41pm:

I do believe their hit boxes are a bit bigger.