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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Are Monkchers still a "thing"? (Read 8354 times)
WonderfulFoppyBint
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #25 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 6:48pm
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Head-Meat wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 5:53pm:
This was my assumption. It's actually just safer to assume everyone is a sock unless you have decent reason to believe otherwise.


I feel like this is a vault rule. Assume sock!
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #26 - Feb 7th, 2019 at 3:26am
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I wouldn't share a ticket with this guy, let alone a sock. The only thing we have in common is I'm a dick and he sucks.
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #27 - Feb 7th, 2019 at 3:32am
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Kluege wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 11:45am:
I just don't see what the point is.  You get +1 to crit range in DWS cores which is the same as investing into Kensai.  Is the point is to just get wisdom to hit and damage to boost paralyze and fear arrows?  I can tell you that I have no issues paralyzing and/or fearing mobs with a 64 wisdom; and still running as a dex build.  You just need to build your enchantment focus into it. You gain more benefit with +1 of enchantment focus boosting than +1 point of wisdom.  With a dex build you have higher AC and better reflex saves.  Also, with going both AA and DWS, you will ultimately have a higher doubleshot score (+20 from each tree) or ranged power (+20 RP from core 6 DWS).  DWS also offer a lot of sneak attack damage along with a multitude of abilities that are available to you to make mobs SA vulnerable... even when running solo.  Use Scion of Ethereal and a max hide skill with that and you have a pretty nice source of extra damage and a bunch of ways to make mobs vulnerable to SA.

Additionally, if you are talking about FoTW Fury shots, you have to rely on a lot of preparation before shooting and hoping the numbers work out.  My pure ranger build does not rely on the FoTW crutch and uses LD and gets an additional +1 crit range as well as blitz (PRR bonus style); and all the other good stuff in LD.

Also not having DWS you lose some great abilities like sniper shot, fort bypass from cores, PRR from Survivalist path, Killer bonus, Leg Shot to slow (works on undead and red named) and all the T5 stuff that is pretty amazing as well.  Lots of damage potential in that tree that you completely eliminate for FoTW fury shot...  which is great when it hits for max damage and you still have charges and not waiting for adrenaline to come off cooldown....

I can agree with a higher wisdom if I were seeing some sort of issue with paralyze/fear hitting, but even in reaper I do not have any noticeable issues.

10K stars is a great boost to doubleshot and it is available 50% more often than manyshot, but manyshot boosts both doubleshot and ranged power.  So say your wisdom is a modest 80 and ranged power is 100 standing.  You get 135 + 5 x monk level (assuming 12 levels = 60) you get +195 or so to doubleshot during 10k stars.  If you are going doubleshot build (AA and DWS) you will get 20% right of the bat to standing doubleshot that you wont have, plus 120 from manyshot AND +120 to your ranged power (which will be 70 higher while blitzing)...  I think you get my point here.  Oh, and killer will also add to doubleshot when it is going, which you wont have either. 

For comparison, my pure ranger has standing 73.95% doubleshot and 135 standing RP.  When fully boosted, RP goes to 400 and doubleshot goes to ~234 give or take a few hundredths of a percent.


Look at this magnificent edit. Go back to *redacted forum* where you belong
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #28 - Feb 7th, 2019 at 12:32pm
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Linker wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 4:13pm:
23* in falcon is the minimum if you invest into it. You dont have to though, going pure racial instead of falcon and building dex works, too.


If you don't take +% helpless damage, then we can't be friends.
  

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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #29 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 1:27am
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i do. thats why 23
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #30 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 11:43am
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26 also assumes Deadly Instinct. You can get away with 25 though if you really spam those bird attacks.
  

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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #31 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 5:16am
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If you're going that way, might go as far as squeezing 2 extra racial AP and splash 1 lvl of warlock for taint the blood and magical training for G/SF enchantment, about 6 effective DC.

Definitely can't use any other trees like kensei though, the AP is tight even with racial lives, and I don't see any use for monk levels past 12. Maybe fighter WF, Maybe cleric + domain for more enchantment DC stable, like monk12/clr7/wlk1? How would you do it?

*edit*: You gain wis for dmg, some spells, and wis boost
The crit mult from kensei is just more damage, and you take all the dex gear anyway. KtA is there too.

The 15~ damage you lose sucks, but are you sure 26 falconeer points beats a kensei with dex for damage?
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2019 at 8:18am by Linker »  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #32 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 4:52pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 11:43am:
26 also assumes Deadly Instinct. You can get away with 25 though if you really spam those bird attacks.


On a monk I couldn't get by.

ymmv
  

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volt_ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm:
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #33 - Feb 13th, 2019 at 5:46am
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What's the alternative on that kind of build?
  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #34 - Feb 15th, 2019 at 11:49am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 4:52pm:
On a monk I couldn't get by.

ymmv


For shurikens, I roll with 1 min duration and am able to keep it up. For melee, I agree you want 2 minutes. Maybe part of that is being ranged, so there's less time when you're not attacking, or maybe it's the high hit rate.... But supposedly it's the bird that is actually doing the thing, so who knows...

In any case, it seems like the attack is much more likely to recharge DI if the mob fails their save.
« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2019 at 11:50am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #35 - Feb 17th, 2019 at 7:00am
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Linker wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 4:10pm:
Manyshots requiring a bow is as much of a restriction as the ki, you pick up a lvl 1 monk ED twist and water stance ....

Even if that wasn't the case, everything you do, a shuri does better.


This is retarded. Just pick up a bow it's literally only 1 feat, unless you're someone that remembers toggling monk stance again after manyshot, then it's 0 -1.

Also, no on the falconer tree 14 + 41 + 11 (dws) + 6 that leaves 8 for sprint boost and shintoa core 1.

Sprint boost for the win!

My dps is fine, besides, trash is just trash anyways.
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #36 - Feb 17th, 2019 at 3:36pm
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Linker wrote on Jan 29th, 2019 at 10:42am:
As long as your DCs suffice, AA's can clear most trash on r1 just like r10. I'm running a 11wiz/8monk/1wlk with above 100 effective DC, it isn't very gear / PL heavy, and it does land PKs in lategame r10s.



are you ever going to post this build? Elf or Wood Elf? Half elf has nice boosts tho, 41 in AA, 23 in Falc? 14 in Elf, rest in Warlock and Wiz trees for DCs?

Bow feats + most useful casting stuff? Monk Stances or just base stance? Mass frog?
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #37 - Feb 20th, 2019 at 8:50am
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MisterHank wrote on Feb 17th, 2019 at 7:00am:
This is retarded [...]

11 (dws) + 6 that leaves 8 for sprint boost [...]

My dps is fine, besides, trash is just trash anyways.


I agree it's retarded,
ranger splash sucks on this build, sprint boost and DWS is useless compared to what you can get with these AP, and the DPS is super important for anything not pk-able.

You did make me think though, maybe you can make the FvS lvl 2 feat wis-to-damage can save you some AP. that does mean you lose a lot of monk 10kstars doubleshot.
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #38 - Feb 20th, 2019 at 9:10am
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 17th, 2019 at 3:36pm:
are you ever going to post this build?  [...]

Elf or Wood Elf? Half elf [...]

Warlock and Wiz trees?[...]

feats [...]

Mass frog?


There's a few varients, maybe ill post it sometime; welf comes on top in almost all of them, racial tree is better and you dont need more than 11 base int. Helf has cool HA%, but isn't worth it, you go 15 dex anyways ( maybe you can tweak around less dex with +8 tomes feats and lvl order to avoid this, I don't think it works ).

Warlock is 2 AP, 4 effective DC and UMD. no other class achieves this much this early; wiz AP is only for vampire +2 enchant DC. Shouldn't give up gmaster of elements, would never give up master of elements; mass frog is a feat, and I don't use it much. I don't even use paralyze arrows much, even in groups.

I recently TR'd to test a 12fvs/7mnk/1wlk, and then 18mnk/1ftr/1wlk; Will update how it feels on legendary content.
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #39 - Feb 20th, 2019 at 1:07pm
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Linker wrote on Feb 20th, 2019 at 8:50am:
You did make me think though, maybe you can make the FvS lvl 2 feat wis-to-damage can save you some AP.


You have to be at least half FvS for that ability to work.
  

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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #40 - Feb 20th, 2019 at 1:44pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 20th, 2019 at 1:07pm:
You have to be at least half FvS for that ability to work.


Warsoul has divine might at tier 1, outclassing falcon with just 4 AP invested. So you have 20~ new AP, more casting, some feats etc.

You do lose 12.5 effective DS to 12mnk/7clr/1wlk, but that build is super tight on feats and twists

18monk variants have 20~ effective DS on you, but they have their own issues

Edit: I know the wiz/monk/wlk does well on r10
I think this variant has potential, but im open to suggestions. How do you do your r10 monkcher?
« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2019 at 1:46pm by Linker »  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #41 - Feb 20th, 2019 at 6:58pm
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Linker wrote on Feb 20th, 2019 at 1:44pm:
Warsoul has divine might at tier 1, outclassing falcon with just 4 AP invested. So you have 20~ new AP, more casting, some feats etc.

You do lose 12.5 effective DS to 12mnk/7clr/1wlk, but that build is super tight on feats and twists

18monk variants have 20~ effective DS on you, but they have their own issues

Edit: I know the wiz/monk/wlk does well on r10
I think this variant has potential, but im open to suggestions. How do you do your r10 monkcher?


so if you have AP for it lantern archon has some very awesome capabilities best spoke about elsewhere that could compliment this build well
  
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Re: Are Monkchers still a "thing"?
Reply #42 - Oct 16th, 2019 at 6:33am
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Linker wrote on Feb 20th, 2019 at 9:10am:
There's a few varients, maybe ill post it sometime; welf comes on top in almost all of them, racial tree is better and you dont need more than 11 base int. Helf has cool HA%, but isn't worth it, you go 15 dex anyways ( maybe you can tweak around less dex with +8 tomes feats and lvl order to avoid this, I don't think it works ).

Warlock is 2 AP, 4 effective DC and UMD. no other class achieves this much this early; wiz AP is only for vampire +2 enchant DC. Shouldn't give up gmaster of elements, would never give up master of elements; mass frog is a feat, and I don't use it much. I don't even use paralyze arrows much, even in groups.

I recently TR'd to test a 12fvs/7mnk/1wlk, and then 18mnk/1ftr/1wlk; Will update how it feels on legendary content.



There is a variant of this, including some secret harharhar shenanigans that should be banned, that's outperforming the meta on high reapers.
  
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