Doogy wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 12:27pm:

IDK, hard to compare without a testing dummy set to time instead of hit points. We need dummies set to 2 minutes, 5 minutes, and 10 minutes. SSG, please...

Typical differences are :

Base damage on ranger is much higher, rp much higher, sneak attack higher, and doubleshot is statically higher. Sniper shot is the tits when paired with Hunt's.

VKF thrower gets a better burst rotation with Whirling and Vendetta up twice every 2 minute cycle. 30+ imbue dice. The ability to generate 5 daggers more often even when ranger has killer up. And less reliance on marking targets and building af stacks.

burst rotation :

1st second - mom + vendetta
15th second out of vendetta
20th second whirling blades
35th second blades is over
25 seconds of nothing
60th second vendetta #2
75th second end of vendetta
80th second whirling #2
40 seconds of nothing
120th second repeat burst rotation

tl;dr ; mom + vendetta -> whirling -> vendetta -> whirling -> repeat.

You do not have to pay attention to timers and do not have to stagger anything as a result since they will never overlap this way. Just spam that sequence on cooldown.

Shunned wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 5:23pm:


Ooze ( lgs-dino), Shattered Device, and Darkness ( SD ) all stack.

Rubbinns wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:


Thanks for the indepth reply.
What does 30+ imbue dice actually look like in actual numbers+what does 12d77 over 7d77 look like on Shiradi procs, as i only see the 7d77 ones on current build, thanks

Doogy wrote on Dec 6^th, 2022 at 3:06pm:

a lot. discussing it this openly may get it nerfed

Binkey wrote on Dec 7^th, 2022 at 9:37am:

For aoe they have nothing.

I haven't tested IPS since they killed inquisitive with massive nerfs. But just losing 75 rp and -20% on your front number is a large hit.

Say the build does 250 base. 250 x 5 = 1250 ( using 400 rp in this example ). 1250 x 5 = 6250. Without af stacks 400 rp drops to 325 using 15 AF stacks in example.

250 x 4.25 = 1062.5. Already lost nearly 200 damage per star thrown, or up to 1k on a 5 shot. Then the additional 20% penalty on that 1065.2 = 850. 850 x 5 = 4250. 6250 vs 4250 is a 2k loss on a 5 shot

Rubbinns wrote on Dec 4^th, 2022 at 9:08pm:

What if both builds had an incest baby?

Drop ranger and rogue, probably lose kta.

Take 4 arty and instead of 25 and 40 seconds of nothing you swap and use the tier 4 fusillade? Idk where you would shave points but if you pick up the 3 dice  in BE you’re only down 4 instead of 7. Maybe use the left over level for fighter to try to fit OV? Probably stupid.

Everling wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

Sorry man but I don't think Flav swings that way.

newalchemist wrote on Dec 13^th, 2022 at 2:20am:


Its not hidden lol. This was all introduced with ED update.

In Shadowdancer:
T1: Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Nimble Fingers feat, +1 Sneak Attack dice.

Updated stats and an additional gear set to include Insightful Sheltering. Not a huge deal for me, but some may not like being at 72~ mrr. Insightful mrr gets the build to 89.

Some stats were adjusted in OP

Adjusted dshot max values from 5.90 to 5.76 including reaper boost, Rapid Throw, Whirling, MoM, Dshot AB, orb equipped including reaper stats + both potions.

Update on in game stats :

Adjusted gear set to include insightful sheltering for 89 mrr/189 prr on ship/234 prr with reaction/304 prr with reaction spike, not including reaper stats.

Ranged power at 394 with inexorable advance, 15 af stacks, and deadly rain, not including reaper stats. 30 higher if using AB RP at cost of 30 dshot. Which is optimal if full tilt bursting since you will never ever need 476 doubleshot. It can easily drop 76 dshot and still hit the cap of 5 daggers.

Poison power at 728 with both potions, standing on ship, in reaction. 828~ with spike reaction. 978 with wellspring. not including reaper stats.

The full tilt burst rotation is better with AB RP, and Vendetta can apply simultaneously with Whirling Blades + MoM.

Only drawbacks are that this build requires more micro managing than shuri does. And it is a lot slower. Like, no movement speed at all. So if anything sees through smoke bomb and chases you down into a corner. The build cannot zip past them. Biggest party advantage is being able to aoe heal potion people. The potion is slow and has to arc like a jumpshot, but if the target is close enough then it can travel at a very low and flatter arc.

For leveling just play as an inquisitive, and use extend instead of quicken feat.

Everling wrote on Dec 16^th, 2022 at 8:04am:

The casting time even with quicken isn't instantaneous like regular action boosts are which makes it hard to cast when you need it. Action boosts on alchemist are more of a preemptive thing to cast. Another issue is if you used any other action boost then all other boosts go on a 30 second cooldown, or if you used sprint boost then it goes on a 40 second cooldown. Rather clunky. Tabaxi can alleviate some of that at the cost of 2 imbue dice, taking the build from 34 to 32.

Updated Starless Night + Silver Concord dual gem set.

Gained an augment slot, augmented fossilized amber. The orb slots The Eye of Lamannia. Netted +2 insightful sheltering.

The current configuration managed to free itself of the sky ring which has its stats split between the eye of lamania augment, and the starless night gloves. Less overlap = more stuff.

Quick update on reaper stats.

247 rp in reaper, 50 mom + tenser, 10 potion, 75 af stacks, 30 epic moment, 20-50 action boost + deadly rain = 435-465 rp boosting. Around 350 with af stacked and doubleshoot boosting with deadly rain.

810 poison spell power in reaper, running both potions. 840 reaction, 940 with spike reaction, 1090 wellspring boosting.

PRR 190/211 reaper/mrr 90. PRR with reaction 233/254 reaper. And with reaction spike 303/324 reaper.

145~ to-hit. Decon + Tracking and sneak attacking boost that no issues territory. 96% bypass before decon/tracking.


Biggest problem is proc damage rips aggro. This is not unique among imbue builds.

Binkey wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2023 at 11:09am:


Sure. Just don't play as a thrower while leveling.   


Honestly, every time I've tried leveling as a thrower I've LRed into something else due to the pain.

Gunga wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2023 at 3:36pm:

If only it were possible to throw your Great Axe around.

:sigh: