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Gunga
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #50 - Jan 4th, 2023 at 6:24pm
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Standing Stone Games wrote on Jan 2nd, 2023 at 4:26pm:
If only it were possible to throw your Great Axe around.

:sigh:

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Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #51 - Jan 5th, 2023 at 11:57am
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Leveling with bottled spells is fun. Apply the imbues, etc. And get 80% returning in Falconry.

Looks like I've trashed most of the ones I had as I never used them. Would have been a good plan otherwise - thanks.
« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2023 at 11:57am by Binkey »  
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #52 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 7:43am
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Going to post a few updates now that i have had played this through all types of content for a good amount of time. It's got great ranged dps. Sick burst that competes in kills with anything aside 2 dc casters simultaneously erasing everything. However it does well head to head even against casters and melees, though it does not match melee's overall sustained dps.

Alchemist remains the best overall imbue base because it can strip anything needed. Golems, portals, your mom, etc. Ideal for shit i dragged it through, like our shroud r10 5man, and 4-6 man r10 baba, deathwyrm and mod. Which afterwards they kicked me out from because im too cheesy. So they did it with even less men and those are the ones posted on the achievements section of the mobos.

The build is highly tedious to play optimally because every single thing is on very short timers and duration. VKF attacks require actually hitting your target to get the buff and bursts ( missing a whirling blades and rapid throws bothers me ). Not always fun on ranged because dry firing happens often like me after busting my 6th nut. I keep trying to build away from alch and vkf but whirling blades is just so good. Dagger throwers without it cannot reach 400 dshot. At least not without killer and against bosses.

Action boosts are so clunky that even quicken and jump casting does not take away the aversion of executing them. Aggro pulling can occur because imbues and random procs spike too high ignoring threat reduction. Smoke bomb is fixed on lamania, taking away the only defensive option the build has. Doesn't have CC, pin is good most of the time, but it can miss or dry fire and it's against one mob only. Doesn't have high mobility, making it very positional reliant. Just not much it can do when something is close.

Healing people is the main utility provided along with trapping. The heals are aoe heals and allows you to save party members a good amount of times ( youre welcome, rat ass guildies ). Some alchemist problems are still the same with thrown potions : ceilings, terrain, distance, even the target's movement can break the potion. If someone jumps while you are targeting them it can hit their foot and the heal wont go off. Thrown potions like heal, cure, curse, etc, cannot be quickened, and demand a high concentration score when dotted or hit, just to succeed the cast.

Not really worth the squeeze in quests and basic low skull raids. Just isn't necessary there.

I failed to roll a dual Gem of Many Facets with both Concord and Starless Night, after over 10k threads squandered. Current gear set is down 30 poison spellpower and 15% helpless from not having the dual GoMF. Using KT ring for improved deception.

Sitting inside reaper stats self buffed. No reaction for the prr boost, neither is tenser on, or prr potions.



doublestrike standing. Can be 4 higher from potions, 8 orb swap, 20 rapid throw, or +32 nearly permanent dshot ( 210 total). Temporary buffs ; 30 reaper boost, 30 dshot boost, 100 whirling blades, 100 mom.



buff bar - not using yugo and store stat potions for +4 int.



Spellpower using commendation and vendor potions



Gear if you do not have the dual Gem.



Enhancements after dropping assassin for vkf capstone. Gives up 3 imbue for 2 stats, 20 rp, 3 damage, blessed blades, and vistani fortune.



Once they nerf things I will tr it to 15alch/4rog/1barb using racial AA. 4 rogue for uncanny dodge and into the mists burst since i am no longer using the assassin ap.
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2023 at 7:45am by Rubbinns »  
Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #53 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 10:47am
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beautiful write up bro ty
  
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #54 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 11:26am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 10:47am:
beautiful write up bro ty



This.
  

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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #55 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 2:01pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 7:43am:
your mom


Toppie
  
Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #56 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 3:45pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 7:43am:
Once they nerf things

You heard this for sure going to happen?
  
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #57 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 4:13pm
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Shunned wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 3:45pm:
You heard this for sure going to happen?


No. I just assume after 6 months or up to a year, they get around to nerfing things or fixing some bugs. It would not surprise me.


After any nerfs or fixes I'm going with this ap split on drow 15alc/4rog/1barb 



Uncanny dodge and miststalker will be the defensive options after smoke bomb fix on lam goes live. Into the mists 50 rp swap becomes an option for bursts. barb 10% speed to alleviate the running in sand feeling of no movement speed.

Slight bump in defense from barb DR 1%. You could blood feast too, but you drop a lot of abilities and have to toggle back precision, which is annoying, but might be worth if it lets you survive.

Same gear, feats mostly same. Loses twf feats for the extra hp and gives up a feat to take rapid shot.
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2023 at 5:57pm by Rubbinns »  
Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #58 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 5:47pm
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Going to cover rotations, and attack rates, bonuses, and stats when bursting and not. The base attack rate as posted above in the pics is 1 + 210 = 3.10. Mom or Whirling gets that to 4.10 or 5.10 if using both.

I like to stagger whirling and mom separately. So it becomes 4.10 + reaper + dshot boost for 4.70 with a duration of 20 seconds for mom burst. And a rate of 4.40 for the next 10 seconds out of 15 during whirling blades burst, since doubleshot boost will expire with mom.

On average that gets you close to 5 shots every other attack, or in mom burst+ dshot + reaper boost case, it's 5 shots every 2 out of 3 attacks. If you really, really need to burst all out then just mom + blades gets you to 5.10 rate. No need to boost. But it's only for 15 seconds, after which you get to 4.10 with 5 seconds left of MOM.

The full burst rotation is :  Sneak Shadow -> KTA -> Vistani fortune -> Vendetta -> Queue Hunt's end -> Wellspring -> Shiradi epic moment -> RANGED POWER boost + Deadly rain swap  -> Mom -> Whirling blades -> Rapid Throw -> Hunt's end -> Blessed blades. Reaper boost after Whirling goes away.

That is the optimal sequencing to get the most burst in the shortest amount of time. It will lose some seconds of some abilities' duration, but the ordering prioritizes the longest and least valuable timers so that they expire first.

Staggered boosts are similar in order. Basic most commonly used one is Kta -> Fortune -> Vendetta -> Queue Hunt -> Dshot boost deadly swap -> Reaper boost -> Mom or Blades -> Rapid throw -> Blessed blades.

Ranged power is at 266 for me, should be similar for most unless they have more mythic and reaper gear. Mom + tenser is 60 rp. Deadly rain swap is 20. Af stacked is 75. Shiradi epic moment 30 rp. 451 rp total full tilt. Or 481 using RP boost.

14d6 sneak dice. 31 imbue dice. Spellpower at 813. +15 reaction. +100 reaction spike. +150 wellspring for 1078 total poison power bursting.

PRR at 230. 235 tenser. 250 reaction. 350 reaction spike. Can even replace 3d6 sneak augment set for 30 artifact prr and get to 380 if desired for emergencies. 30 dodge.

« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2023 at 6:13pm by Rubbinns »  
Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #59 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 10:58pm
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like the changes, that run speed would be huge, and uncanny and and mists is so nice together. I run mists now at the expense of a couple dice just to have some layered D (like your mom)
  
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #60 - Feb 20th, 2023 at 12:12am
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 5:47pm:
Queue Hunt's end -> Wellspring -> Shiradi epic moment -> RANGED POWER boost + Deadly rain swap 


practiaclly in game, how long does this actually take?  It feels like an enternity to me, but then im not optimized and dont have practice doing it.

So how to do this quickly, how to make sure lag doesnt "false" activate one, and how much dps is lost because you aren't throwing anything when doing this?
  
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #61 - Feb 20th, 2023 at 4:13am
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Shunned wrote on Feb 20th, 2023 at 12:12am:
how long does this actually take?

Wellspring, sneak of shadows, and action boosts have animations that take up a second. Things like kta, fortune, activated attacks can be pressed faster than one second ( attack animations are over 60 per minute anyhow ).

Shunned wrote on Feb 20th, 2023 at 12:12am:
So how to do this quickly, how to make sure lag doesnt "false" activate one

Just practice. You cannot stop ddo lag, you can only pray!

Shunned wrote on Feb 20th, 2023 at 12:12am:
and how much dps is lost because you aren't throwing anything when doing this?

Bursting requires setting up to maximize damage. It is less overall damage if you are eschewing the burst sequencing and instead just auto attacking. The difference is thousands and thousands of dps if executed properly versus simply just attacking. You can test on lamania kobolds and see the time differences between full burst set up and not.
« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2023 at 4:14am by Rubbinns »  
Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #62 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 2:57pm
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On this:

The full burst rotation is :  Sneak Shadow -> KTA -> Vistani fortune -> Vendetta -> Queue Hunt's end -> Wellspring -> Shiradi epic moment -> RANGED POWER boost + Deadly rain swap  -> Mom -> Whirling blades -> Rapid Throw -> Hunt's end -> Blessed blades. Reaper boost after Whirling goes away.

KTA is cheap, renewable and fast, I just cast it all the time so I don't need to add it to a burst rotation, it should just always be up (worth an extra AP or two to make it last longer in my opinion, though looks like you've changed AP to 3/3 which I heartily endorse).

One question, for the audience at home how are you poison stripping prior to this rotation, if at all?
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2023 at 2:58pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #63 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 3:25pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 21st, 2023 at 2:57pm:
One question, for the audience at home how are you poison stripping prior to this rotation, if at all?

If they're immune then Poison shot goes first before whirling.
  
Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Dagger Thrower Imbue U57
Reply #64 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 9:02pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Nov 27th, 2022 at 11:23am:
I believe dagger throwers are the best builds to take advantage of imbues. Their high doubleshot gives them an effective attack rate that beats xbows.

The xbow builds will also eventually run out of NHB charges while dagger throwers have no charges. Since it is alchemist based it can spam doubleshot boost in conjunction with their burst abilities, all quest/raid long. Giving it another advantage that is unique to alchemist throwers.

This build gets 35~ dice on an effective base attack rate of 3.6~. That can boost to 4.76. 5.76 if you wanted to flex 

The build : 15alch/3rgr/2rog drow.

Feats : https://i.imgur.com/Heo4UYh.png

AP : https://i.imgur.com/y3zF8Fj.png

Gear :

Googles: Legendary Lenses of the Dark Depths (Ins Dodge, UMD, Blindness Immunity) Profane Experiment 1
Helm: Watcher helm (Ins DS, Accuracy, Q Deadly, Seeker) Perfect Silence 1
Neck: Legendary Pendant of the Sky (Insight Negative/Devotion, Deception) Curse 1
Trinket: Legendary Gem of Many Facets (Insightful PRR ) Silver Concord set Concord 1
Cloak: Cloak of the Hunter (Relentless Fury, Exc Healing Amp, Q Deception, Q Seeker 3) Perfect Silence 2
Belt: Dinosaur Bone Belt (Int 15, Deadly, Armor Piercing) Curse 2
Gloves: Legendary Birchlore Curse 3
Boots: Legendary Spectre Boots (Doubleshot, Ghostly) Profane Experiment 2
Bracers: Legendary Sunken Chains (Insight Seeker, Q Int +3) Perfect Silence 3
Ring: Legendary Signet Ring of the Sky (Negative 149, Positive 149) Curse 4
Ring: Legendary Ring of the Silver Concord Concord 2
Armor: Legendary Researcher's Leathers (Healing Amp, Fort, PRR, False Life) Profane Experiment 3
Weapon: Attuned Bone Throwing Dagger (Icescale, Meltfang, +2 Exc Int, Ash) Curse 5
Offhand: Simple Dino Attuned Weapon/Dino Orb if optimal party covers your debuffs
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity (Insight Deception)

Insightful Sheltering Set up :

Googles: Legendary Lenses of the Dark Depths (Ins Dodge, UMD, Blindness Immunity) Profane Experiment 1
Helm: Watcher helm (Ins DS, Accuracy, Q Deadly, Seeker) Perfect Silence 1
Neck: Legendary Pendant of the Sky (Insight Negative/Devotion, Deception) Curse 1
Trinket: Legendary Gem of Many Facets (Positive Lore/Armor Pierce/Insightful Accuracy ) Silver Concord set Concord 1
Cloak: Cloak of the Hunter (Relentless Fury, Exc Healing Amp, Q Deception, Q Seeker 3)
Belt: Direbear Belt (Insightful Sheltering) Perfect Silence 2
Gloves: Dinosaur Bone Gloves (Int 15, Deadly, MRR, Fossilized Amber) Curse 2
Boots: Legendary Spectre Boots (Doubleshot, Ghostly) Profane Experiment 2
Bracers: Legendary Sunken Chains (Insight Seeker, Q Int +3) Perfect Silence 3
Ring: Legendary Signet Ring of the Sky (Negative 149, Positive 149) Curse 3
Ring: Legendary Ring of the Silver Concord Concord 2
Armor: Legendary Researcher's Leathers (Healing Amp, Fort, PRR, False Life) Profane Experiment 3
Weapon: Attuned Bone Throwing Dagger (Icescale, Meltfang, +2 Exc Int, Ash) Curse 4
Offhand: Simple Dino Attuned Weapon/Dino Orb if optimal party covers your debuffs Curse 5
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity (Insight Deception)



For you lottery winners out there.

Starless Night + Concord dual Gem of Many Facets :

Googles: Legendary Lenses of the Dark Depths (Ins Dodge, UMD, Blindness Immunity) Profane Experiment 1
Helm: Watcher helm (Ins DS, Accuracy, Q Deadly, Seeker) Perfect Silence 1
Neck: Legendary Pendant of the Sky (Insight Negative/Devotion, Deception) Curse 1
Trinket: Legendary Gem of Many Facets (Healing Lore, Armor Peircing , Insightful Accuracy ) Silver Concord set Concord 1-Starless 1
Cloak: Cloak of the Hunter (Relentless Fury, Exc Healing Amp, Q Deception, Q Seeker 3) Perfect Silence 2
Belt: Lindal's Mighty Belt (Insightful Sheltering +19) Curse 2
Gloves:  Legendary Bramble-Casters (Poison +151) Starless 2
Boots: Legendary Spectre Boots (Doubleshot, Ghostly) Profane Experiment 2
Bracers: Legendary Sunken Chains (Insight Seeker, Q Int +3) Perfect Silence 3
Ring: Dinosaur Bone (Int 15, Deadly, MRR, Fossilized Amber) Curse 3
Ring: Legendary Ring of the Silver Concord Concord 2
Armor: Legendary Researcher's Leathers (Healing Amp, Fort, PRR, False Life) Profane Experiment 3
Weapon: Attuned Bone Throwing Dagger (Icescale, Meltfang, +2 Exc Int, Ash) Curse 4
Offhand: Simple Dino Attuned Weapon/Dino Orb Curse 5
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity (Insight Deception)


Filigree :

artifact ; spines raid 10rp/Eye Beholder-Grave +2 int-8usp/Long shadow +1 int/Crackshot 5rp

weapon

spines raid 10rp
spines 5rp
spines atk-dmg
set : 2 dmg/10rp
total : 35 rp/3dmg

long int
long 5rp
set : 5rp/2 dice
total : 15rp/1 int/2 dice

reverberation 10 universal sp
reverberation 3prr/2mrr
set : 2 dice
total : 1ousp/3prr/2mrr/2 dice

Eye Beholder-Grave +2 int/8usp
set : 10usp
total;  4 int/26 usp

Crackshot 5rp
Crackshot atk-dmg
Set : 15 rp
total : 25rp/1 atk-dmg

imbue breakdown :

5 alch 15 levels
1 vile chemist ap
2 drow ap
4 aa ap
3 asi ap
3 gear set
1 augment
1 element feat
2 chaos feat
3 scion feat
3 draconic
2 greater elemental
4 filigree

34 dice
. Man, I had no idea how stuff Stacked like this as a new player, Seriously Great Idea for a Thrower, I’m going to look at this some more and I am seeing how gear stacks now because of you. Thanks for Teaching Me this new Info!
  
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