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Persiflage
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Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Feb 7th, 2014 at 5:01pm
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So, there seem to be quite a few Druid fans hereabouts and I could seriously use some advice.  I have finally managed to get my final life on my main and I want to come as close as I can to a hybrid melee/caster in wolf form.  I made him an 18/2 Druid/Monk on his second life, running in GMoF and it was what inspired me to pick up some extra lives in the first place and it all sort of snowballed from there.  Smiley

I'm only just sticking my head up above the Epic parapet properly for the first time since the enhancement pass (which came while I was in the middle of picking up my PL's) so my gear is... um... embarrassing.  Pretty much just the village comms stuff, some addy knuckles and a +10 Stunning Dun Robar ring.  I do have some Old Skool shizz like a bauble, but nothing significant.

At the moment, I'm inclining toward 17 Druid / 2 Monk / 1 Wiz (for the extra feat and the extra cleave from EK).  I have only one of each past life.  I believe I have managed to pick up +5 tomes for every stat except Charisma.  (I have stupidly good tome luck; I have an entire page of unused, unbound +4's)

Obviously, something has to give in terms of DPS vs. casting, but I'm thinking that if I can get a high enough Earthquake DC, the awesome cc (along with Drifting Lotus) will compensate.

I love my cleaves and would be sad to do without them, but like I say, I know something has to give.  Feats are so tight that human is pretty much the only choice.

At the moment, I am thinking along the lines of:

Monk: Stunning Fist, TWF
Wiz: Spell Focus: Evocation
Human Bonus: Power Attack
Levels:  Maximize Spell, PL:Wizard, Completionist, Quicken Spell, ITWF, GTWF (or Heighten?), Greater SF: Evocation.
Epic feats: Great Cleave, Epic Spell Focus: Evocation, Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
ED feats: Tactician (not sure about this, might be better to take whichever of Heighten or GTWF I didn't pick up earlier), Perfect TWF

The other thing I might consider doing is dropping Quicken in favour of getting Tactician in the mix as well.  I just don't know. 

Toon will mainly be soloing.  I'll take whatever advice I can get on which feats to drop and which to keep, and particularly how an earth to gear him.  Frankly I don't have a clue these days what most of the items are that people go on about unless I look them up on the wiki  Smiley
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #1 - Feb 7th, 2014 at 5:05pm
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Also, twists...

I'm currently thinking Sense Weakness, Legendary Tactics, Evocation twist from Draconic or Magister.  Or maybe drop SW and take both Evo twists, if they stack.
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #2 - Feb 7th, 2014 at 5:20pm
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I'd edit if I had an edit button... just realised that you can't swap ED feats for normal, if memory serves.  Bah.
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #3 - Feb 7th, 2014 at 6:09pm
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Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack

Level 2 (Druid)

Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 4 (Druid)

Level 5 (Druid)

Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 7 (Druid)

Level 8 (Druid)

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Evocation

Level 10 (Druid)

Level 11 (Druid)

Level 12 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Druid)

Level 14 (Druid)

Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 16 (Druid)

Level 17 (Druid)

Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 19 (Druid)

Level 20 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist

21: GSF Evo

24: ESF Evo

26: PTWF

27: Heighten or mental toughness or empower.

28: Not Tactician, you only have stunning fist, and it will be high enough.
  

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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #4 - Feb 7th, 2014 at 6:12pm
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I don't think the cleaves will be particularly worth it, if you do want them though, I would give up empower heal and mental toughness.

I don't think heighten is particularly worth the feat slot or sp costs on a caster specced druid.  You get enough debuffs that your earthquakes should be landing in all EE content.
  

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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #5 - Feb 7th, 2014 at 6:27pm
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That's completely awesome, thank you very much!  Honestly, I would feel weird without my cleaves... but on the other hand, I can pick up the EK arcane strike and will have the GMoF AoE as well, not to mention Snowslide.  Hmmm.  If they have fixed the stun+cleave in Druid form, it probably isn't worth taking them.

You don't think Completionist is worth taking on this toon?  Given that it's the first one I have ever got to that stage, I'm kinda loathe to miss it off, at least until I go back to get another 2x Fighter and 2x Sorc.  Speaking of which, are they worth the effort?

Appreciating the input here, very much  Smiley
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Munkenmo
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #6 - Feb 7th, 2014 at 9:08pm
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if you really want completionist, I'd give up the 27 feat slot for it.

I don't think the 2fighter/2druid lives are necessary persay.  But I would go through the effort of getting them all over again.
  

So you want to know about an exploit?
PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #7 - Feb 8th, 2014 at 8:27am
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Maybe I'll play him up to cap and see how I go.  I can always use my freebie Epic heart, pick up an Epic PL and then go back for another Heroic life or two  Smiley

Any tips on what I should be striving for, gear-wise?  To all intents and purposes it's like I've been on a break for the last three updates or so.  I'm familiar with the Epic level gear everyone was using when HoRB farming was a thing, but once I got my destinies capped I went for the PL grind so I haven't really paid attention to gear since before Epic Gianthold.

I have a few other toons at epic levels but I have more-or-less only played them for a break from TR'ing.  My overall impression is that there are shitloads of named items and only a handful of good ones, but trying to figure out what to go for when you don't know what anything does is an effing nightmare.  :/
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #8 - Feb 8th, 2014 at 3:07pm
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alchemical wis wraps. (air/water/x)
Sages Locket
Shadowsight EE
blue +3 wis helm
evocation augment crystal (they stack with items now)

After that it's all personal preference.
« Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2014 at 3:07pm by Munkenmo »  

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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #9 - Feb 8th, 2014 at 3:54pm
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Munkenmo wrote on Feb 8th, 2014 at 3:07pm:
alchemical wis wraps. (air/water/x)


Alchemical wraps are not gonna happen; I missed the LoB party entirely.

Quote:


Mmmm. Nice shiny. Okay...


Quote:


That, I have, thanks to a little trading.

Quote:
blue +3 wis helm


Ditto. Time to make some blue scale robes?

Quote:
evocation augment crystal (they stack with items now)


Waaaaait... They do whatwasthatnowyoujustsaid?!? Seriously?

Well holy crap.

I picked up Consuming Darkness EE in the same trade earlier. Am in two minds about giving him that, or handing the CD to my pure monk, who also has an amount of gear approaching zero. Hmmm.

  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #10 - Feb 13th, 2014 at 6:15am
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Since this thread is about a caster/melee hybrid... is sleetstorm still working in EE content(at least the getting blinded part)?

If so, wouldn't that be enough CC?
Yeah, mobs won't get knocked down and stuff, but shouldn't they still be blinded and have less chance to hit?
In combination with dodge, displacement and stuff this sounds good enough for me, but I am not doing EE content regularly.

And it would increase damage output, since you get sneak attacks in the sleet storm.
  
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #11 - Feb 13th, 2014 at 6:50pm
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SwashbucklerHater wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 6:15am:
Since this thread is about a caster/melee hybrid... is sleetstorm still working in EE content(at least the getting blinded part)?

If so, wouldn't that be enough CC?
Yeah, mobs won't get knocked down and stuff, but shouldn't they still be blinded and have less chance to hit?
In combination with dodge, displacement and stuff this sounds good enough for me, but I am not doing EE content regularly.

And it would increase damage output, since you get sneak attacks in the sleet storm.



Sleetstorm works very well.

It's not so much enough CC as it is more icing on the cake imo. Earthquake\mantle\ice storm are already great CC options.

You do get SA damage, but I don't think you would have a meaniningful SA on this build.

Sleet storm works great though, used it on my melee druid in EE's.
  
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 5:36am
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tachyon wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 6:50pm:
Sleetstorm works very well.

It's not so much enough CC as it is more icing on the cake imo. Earthquake\mantle\ice storm are already great CC options.

You do get SA damage, but I don't think you would have a meaniningful SA on this build.


You get a few SA dice from the druid melee tree core abilities and could pick up another in the dark monk tree if you cared, but yeah.  I don't currently have Displacement clickies on that toon; something of an oversight on my part!
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #13 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 12:10am
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Persiflage wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 5:36am:
You get a few SA dice from the druid melee tree core abilities and could pick up another in the dark monk tree if you cared, but yeah.  I don't currently have Displacement clickies on that toon; something of an oversight on my part!


That would require being in wolf form for nature's warrior. I maxed wisdom so I didn't have many points for anything else.

BTW this build is awesome for anyone who wants to try it. Earthquake DC is currently 64 (was fine in EE WGU) before debuffs but I could probably buff it higher, stunning fist is in the 70s. Can't decide whether to run in GMOF or shiradi, both are great.

Also I'd recommend you twist the -10 reflex debuff from magister, it procs on every tic of earthquake\ice storm. I love it.
  
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #14 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 6:10am
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tachyon wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 12:10am:
That would require being in wolf form for nature's warrior. I maxed wisdom so I didn't have many points for anything else.


I definitely want to be in wolf form most of the time.  I am addicted to Snowslide, and the doublestrike doesn't hurt either  Wink  Incidentally, are the doublestrike procs on cleaves in animal form WAI?

Quote:
BTW this build is awesome for anyone who wants to try it. Earthquake DC is currently 64 (was fine in EE WGU) before debuffs but I could probably buff it higher, stunning fist is in the 70s. Can't decide whether to run in GMOF or shiradi, both are great.

Also I'd recommend you twist the -10 reflex debuff from magister, it procs on every tic of earthquake\ice storm. I love it.


Ah, much obliged!  I'm still puzzling over the twists...  that sounds like a better bet than twisting the +DC.  I hadn't thought about running in Shiradi; I've been imagining GMoF or even LD.  Now you've said it though, Shiradi makes sense with so many spells giving AoE ticks.  Hmmm.
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #15 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 10:09am
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Persiflage wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 6:10am:
I definitely want to be in wolf form most of the time.  I am addicted to Snowslide, and the doublestrike doesn't hurt either  Wink  Incidentally, are the doublestrike procs on cleaves in animal form WAI?


Snowslide is sexy. The DC sucks though. I gave it up for storm of vengeance. I mainly run in water ele for the fortification\mantle of the icy soul debuff\faster caster as opposed to wolf form. Not sure about the cleaves.

I twisted +3 evo DC, reflex debuff, and legendary tactics. There are a lot of good twists that I would like to fit over these but I felt like those suited my needs best. I might try messing around with them though.
  
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #16 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 2:44pm
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tachyon wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 10:09am:
Snowslide is sexy. The DC sucks though.


Surely it's no worse than any other Evocation...?

tachyon wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 10:09am:
I mainly run in water ele for the fortification\mantle of the icy soul debuff\faster caster as opposed to wolf form.


I hear ya and there's nothing wrong with that approach, but then you're basically playing a caster build with some melee capability, whereas the aim of the thread is explicitly a wolf form melee/caster hybrid, getting as strong as possible in each.  IMO, you gain more on melee from doing it doggy-style than you lose as a caster for not being frigid.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, it never used to be necessary to *stay* in water form to use Mantle... has that changed?

Quote:
I twisted +3 evo DC, reflex debuff, and legendary tactics. There are a lot of good twists that I would like to fit over these but I felt like those suited my needs best. I might try messing around with them though.


It's tough.  I don't know what to drop, but I do know that I don't want to be without A Dance of Flowers if I'm running outside of GMoF.  LD will give tactics of course, but if I'm going to try Shiradi there'll be some very tough choices to make.  Of course, one of the nice things about this build is that there are hardly any destinies that are actively terrible for it; the core is strong and flexible enough that running in off-destinies is slightly less awful than for more focused toons.
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2014 at 5:09pm by Persiflage »  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #17 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 2:46pm
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Dammit, one missing "/" and the whole post is screwed up.  Why can I no longer edit my posts?!
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #18 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 3:19pm
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Persiflage wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
Why can I no longer edit my posts?!


Because you touch yourself at night.

Also because you need to update your session.
  

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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #19 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 5:06pm
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NOTdarth wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 3:19pm:
Because you touch yourself at night.


Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Anyway, if that were the case, I would *never* have been able to edit my posts.

NOTdarth wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 3:19pm:
Also because you need to update your session.


That sounds WAY more plausible Cheesy
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #20 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 7:25pm
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Oops. I didn't see the aim of the thread  Tongue

Snowslide is a DC 19 + WIS mod. Even with a 28 mod (66 WIS) it's only at 47 DC... which sounds eh.  Cry then again I haven't tried much EE with it. 


Mantle always turns off for me when I go into wolf form, but if it does work in wolf form, that would be sweet. Will check again later.
  
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #21 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 3:37am
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tachyon wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 7:25pm:
Oops. I didn't see the aim of the thread  Tongue

Snowslide is a DC 19 + WIS mod. Even with a 28 mod (66 WIS) it's only at 47 DC... which sounds eh.  Cry then again I haven't tried much EE with it. 


66 Wis?!?  I very much doubt I'll ever hit that.  But...  it's a spell, isn't it?  So +Evocation feats, twists, items and augments ought to work with it.  Don't they?  :/
  

stainer wrote on May 16th, 2013 at 9:26am:
Oh you are good. I will be watching you.


QuantumFX wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 11:11am:
You are an evil human being. 


m4lacka wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:04am:
wow that post hurt a lot more than any of the namecalling i expected. Now I see why ppl consider you evil.
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #22 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 6:45pm
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Persiflage wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 3:37am:
66 Wis?!?  I very much doubt I'll ever hit that.  But...  it's a spell, isn't it?  So +Evocation feats, twists, items and augments ought to work with it.  Don't they?  :/


In theory, yes. I'll test it out later some more.
  
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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #23 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 12:45am
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Friend of mine just soloed EE DA in 20 minutes on a 13druid/6ranger/1mnk split.  went 6 ranger for feats and killer buff, and took fatal harrier with the nature's warrior thingy.  I dont like how it doesnt have evasion which is something I really dont like :3  Maybe a variant like 13druid/4ranger/2monk (and the last lvl you can choose where)
  

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Re: Caster/melee druid: where to compromise?
Reply #24 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 1:32am
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froggy wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 12:45am:
Friend of mine just soloed EE DA in 20 minutes on a 13druid/6ranger/1mnk split.  went 6 ranger for feats and killer buff, and took fatal harrier with the nature's warrior thingy.  I dont like how it doesnt have evasion which is something I really dont like :3  Maybe a variant like 13druid/4ranger/2monk (and the last lvl you can choose where)



13druid/5rogue/2monk. keeps killer buff, gains evasion, uncanny dodge, 3d6 sneak attack (before enhancements) & rogue skills.

loses 10% off hand procs, some tempest enhancements.

second monk level makes up for losing ranger 2wf and tempest PRR, 1 feat loss overall.

Enhancements
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2014 at 1:49am by Munkenmo »  

So you want to know about an exploit?
PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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