Odin212 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 8:24pm:

Were you trying to talk in Trade Chat?

Spell Pen. = Wasted feat.


Useful only when fighting drow. Even then, you can often use a no res. spell.

Stick with one Spell Pen feat, you can always get rid of it later if you wanna stay at cap for long time.
But it's needed if you wanna twist spell pen from destinies, especially for bard which is 3 behind arcanes.
It's not that easy to get no blue shield at level against drow.
Anything is better than stupid Mental toughness, really.

Um ... Bards can use EDs too.

You can Twist the Magister +3.

Fatesinger will probably give another +1 via Cha increase in cores +1 from Echoes stance/stat increase, if desired. Also the boost to Perform increases song DC.

Otherwise, I missed earlier that you included the Fatesinger +7.



Edited:


Edited:

the wizard gets much stronger and more varied dps spells and more defensive spells such as blur plus it can use the inciteful damage on the Harper tree that i would be using anyway for the + enchantment dc mod  from range additionally perform only effects the bard x per rest songs and not his spells (except his sonic damage spells which are weaker than wizard spells anyway).

This begs the question, do the built in buffs from the bard and the +hit/damage on the tree provide more damage than using Inciteful hit/damage on the Harper for an intelligence based wizard? I don't know... I will be putting most all my points into Charisma for the bard so my strength will prob be pretty low

another issue is that wizard does not get a heal unless i go robot in which case i would louse the + Enchantment Dc mod on the Drow racial.


Revaulting wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2015 at 4:47pm:

What is do you mean twist? (not really familiar with high tier play)

not trying to be argumentative I am just trying to bounce ideas around in order to find an ideal build. Its helpful to have opposing ideas (at least for me)

The good bard CC is performance based, not spell based.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 4^th, 2015 at 5:06am:


i have to disagree if something is helpless it takes 50 percent more dmg and if you twist sense weakness 80 percent more, thats almost double the dps of a bard who isnt doing that

fascinate is usefull in certain situations but i like to KILL

nicetrybutimjesus wrote on Feb 4^th, 2015 at 10:58am:


They are not mutually exclusive. OP asked about the best CC. Fascinate is easy to get to no-fail levels because the DC is based on your performance skill.

Now if you're maximizing your charisma, then on the same build you can get the best CC from above plus helpless DPS from Frozen Fury.

Advice to the OP: forget spell focus, heighten, spell pen. Maximize your charisma (taking cha to damage), then max your perform skill (for no-fail fascinate), then max your stunning DC for frozen fury (+12 stunning and +6 combat mastery gear). Cast Otto's Irresistable once in a while when you want to laugh at a dancing mob.

I  actually TR'ed my cc Spellsinger into a cc Battlemage (don't laugh, I have enough characters to try stupid things) a couple months ago. Spellsingers getting to use Mass Hold seemed like a game-changing improvement, but the 20 second cooldown was terrible to deal with in-game. Mass Hold Monster on Wizard is on a 6 second cooldown and it makes a world of difference.

Since Mass Hold Monster is the bread and butter of a CC arcane, Bard really can't compete with Wiz or Sorc in that department, in my opinion. The trade-off is that Bards get songs that can CC anything with some investing in Spellsinger. You may want to consider the types of mobs you are trying to CC when making this decision.

Odin212 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2015 at 1:11am:

Different Tack: Smooth Flourishes: You get Charisma to Damage with weapon attacks Single Weapon Fighting.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckler_enhancements#Tier_Three

The one in the swashbuckler tree does it add the additional stat to damage or replace?
so if i had +3 strength mod and +4 Charisma mod and used Smooth Flourishes would it add my +4 Charisma  mod to my +3 strength mod for +7 or would it use Charisma INSTEAD of strength for damage?

best cc bard is warchanter max cha with spinning ice and fascinate (my guildie has 107 dc on fascinate, just saying)