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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) rogue. what level do G xbows start shining? (Read 29104 times)
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rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
May 19th, 2015 at 12:56am
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Ive been playing around with the mechanic build, and just about to hit 20, Ive had a steady mix of repeaters and G xbows to play  with so far.

I have pretty much all the named decent xbows except slinger (wont drop), and GS (haven decided if its worth making again).

Ive been running full out mechanic tree with harper support and heavy Int with almost as much Dex in light armor mostly.

I hot bar various bolts and xbows, but it seems like even with the trio of deception items (deception bow, guile,backstabbers) that in any situation, the repeaters lay waste to everything much quicker than any given G xbow.

In fact, even with doublecross, and all the names Xbows, a heavy repeater with wounding and puncturing plus any given ruby (without deception on it itself) does far more sustained and burst dps then my best G xbow in all situations.

When does it become better:  In a specific destiny tree?  With only TF G xbow?  Only in vary precise conditions?

I see the very large base damage on my sheet when I equip these, sometimes x5 of what I see on a repeater at the same level, but it just doesnt seem to matter.

Im really confused as this was not what I was expecting at all - I mean that I like the playstyle and the build in general, but the Great Xbow part I just dont get.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #1 - May 19th, 2015 at 1:32am
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I plan on swapping at 7, but I'm going to have a fully upgraded Quenched ready to go.

(I took an Arti level at 2, so targetting sights doesn't kick in until 7. That means I'm best off putting most of my points into Harper 1-6.)

Great xbow is going to especially shine whenever you aren't breaking DR or aren't sneak attacking though.
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #2 - May 19th, 2015 at 3:27am
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Hrrrmmm

I've been rocking a GxB with holy and pure good (ml 6) since I could grab improved critical, before that I ran with a Keen for crit goodness.  Ranged alacrity in a trinket.

Level by level GxB gives me much better chances for a one shot kill, and the bleed is handy in heroic. the crit range with base 2D8 is just too good. Occasionally I would swith back and forth but once I hit level 12 I never switch back, never. I only started to use a different GxB in the past level because I picked up a drainer and I laugh when I see them fall down and lose a level.

Since lev 12 the front end damage on the GxB is superior to the repeater for me, especially with the tasty sneak dice.

If your mixed class,6 levels of ranger are handy for sniper-shot, it's crushing in heroic and gives you much better sneak-attacks than the decep items in that it's on demand. The tier I bard ranged shot (blow by blow) is handy for the +3 threat range and threat shedding. Of course leg shot is good as well. The only real problems with them is the damn cool downs, Blow is 12 seconds, leg is 10 seconds, sniper shot is better but still 6 seconds.

What I have found is the ranger levels or even (can't believe I'm admitting this) elf for AA on a pure mech is good. Because they allow you to grab the AA ranged strikes, Dispelling shot +[3], inferno shot +2[w], and Shattermantle shot +3[w], all with 3 second cool downs. Granted they are fucking expensive at 2pts a rank, but with a GxB +3[w] extra is amazing bang for buck with those crazy fast cool downs. I use it mostly for the front-end damage, the additional effects are okay if they happen to proc but really I'm just interested in the +[w] aspects.  The other available ranged attacks such as Head-shot, Aimed-shot, Merciful-shot are all handy but the cool-downs are much longer.

Keep in mind that once you're sitting at Mech Tier V you get a additional +2[w] on none repeaters, so by cycling thru Sniper, Dispelling, Shattermantle, Leg, inferno, you are getting 10XD8, and 8XD8 every shot. 

All this gets tossed as soon as I hit epic, and I reset everything to optimize adrenaline and adrenaline recharging.
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2015 at 3:33am by Hag Master »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #3 - May 19th, 2015 at 12:40pm
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Really?

I mean, Im almost full rogue, with nearly maxed mechanic tree (so i have full bleed and all the T5 enhancements), x3 in know angles, and a pt in bard for the shedding hatred (almost never need it) and when I hit with  G xbow either they die or it takes about three hits on mobs 2 levels above me (runnin for max exp).

The repeater takes one volley,maybe two in half the time it takes to do three shots with  G xbow and they are always dead.

Reds take a few seconds with a repeater and much much longer with a G xbow (I dont have all these ranger shots, so maybe that something, but youd have to give up the level 18 enhancement and a shit ton of SA die plus Bab to get those, so Im thinking thats a rough trade off, but maybe thats the key then ???).

Running with the trio of deception items and a repeater almost always turns mobs, whereas the G xbow is about 50/50.

I just dont see where a rogue can kill without relying on the sneak attack damage, at least the way I am playing, and the G xbows slow speed equates to less SA chance and thus much longer kill times.

I suppose I can see it working in raids where you just stand and deliver, but I really thought it had to be my missing something here, yet it sounds like I am not.

I dont see how we are getting different results.

Could others who have tried this chime in on their experiences and maybe I can feel out whats going on?
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2015 at 12:45pm by Fail »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #4 - May 19th, 2015 at 1:48pm
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I think you're talking about epic while HR is talking about heroic.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #5 - May 19th, 2015 at 6:09pm
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Im only level 19.

If this suddenly changes and eH-ee content makes repeaters crap suddenly and then G xbows shine, I could understand since I have no experience yet there with these.

Still confused though, but meh I guess.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #6 - May 19th, 2015 at 6:13pm
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Fail wrote on May 19th, 2015 at 12:40pm:
Really?

I mean, Im almost full rogue, with nearly maxed mechanic tree (so i have full bleed and all the T5 enhancements), x3 in know angles, and a pt in bard for the shedding hatred (almost never need it) and when I hit with  G xbow either they die or it takes about three hits on mobs 2 levels above me (runnin for max exp).

The repeater takes one volley,maybe two in half the time it takes to do three shots with  G xbow and they are always dead.

Reds take a few seconds with a repeater and much much longer with a G xbow (I dont have all these ranger shots, so maybe that something, but youd have to give up the level 18 enhancement and a shit ton of SA die plus Bab to get those, so Im thinking thats a rough trade off, but maybe thats the key then ???).

Running with the trio of deception items and a repeater almost always turns mobs, whereas the G xbow is about 50/50.

I just dont see where a rogue can kill without relying on the sneak attack damage, at least the way I am playing, and the G xbows slow speed equates to less SA chance and thus much longer kill times.

I suppose I can see it working in raids where you just stand and deliver, but I really thought it had to be my missing something here, yet it sounds like I am not.

I dont see how we are getting different results.

Could others who have tried this chime in on their experiences and maybe I can feel out whats going on?



Sounds like you're happy with the repeater mate, so it's not really a issue. Glad you found something to your taste, Enjoy.

I have two capped pure mechs (human & Blade), 1 capped mixmech, 1 lv26 pally/mech, and I am at 18 with a Mech/rang/bard. During play I found the GxB to be most effective, but that's just me. It's good to see repeater players are feeling satisfied as well.

Also for future ref don't forget that non-repeaters get 8 more sneak-die than repeaters, thrown, bows, +7 more damage. For some reason the wiki hasn't caught up yet.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #7 - May 19th, 2015 at 10:48pm
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I really want to be the best ranged rogue I can be, esp when I hit EE content.

In all the above posts the one thing that was said that came close to the topic was your statement that you used all these ranger enhancement shots for the bonus [W] die hits on short cooldowns.

How few levels do you think you can take in ranger to get the majority of these if your balancing it with rogue and should it stay a 2 class split in your opinion?

Are there other feats/enhancements from other classes that you ve tried to do this with and had success?

What exactly do you plan to do once you get into epic destiny mode (going off your statement about getting adrenaline), because as I understand that destiny (and my knowledge is limited) the adrenaline builds focus around rage, which is a str boost at its core - does that mean your playing as a STR based mechanic instead of the usual dex/int one?

I want to get a better feel for your playstyle and and maybe the type of gear/G xbows you rotate through.
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2015 at 11:34pm by Fail »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #8 - May 19th, 2015 at 11:00pm
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Can't believe I got sucked in again, only just remembered your name now. Well played sir.

Done here.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #9 - May 19th, 2015 at 11:24pm
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Wow. Nevermind asshat.

I'd also forgotten that your the only guy so far that I really dont like around here; thank you for reminding me.

I actually thought you might be someone who knew a thing or two, but after a second BS line like that in one of my threads after I ask for real details about your build, I'm just going to go with the very likely presumption that you dont know a damn thing.

If anyone who has really been trying these builds knows if Great Xbows really are competitive in EE/end game content, please feel free to post with some details that I might be able to build up on.

I'm struggling on my own, but doing ok - just always looking to do better.

Hag - your more than welcome to just go away.
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2015 at 11:26pm by Fail »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #10 - May 19th, 2015 at 11:58pm
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Sure thing, hopefully I will not forget your name again and I can successfully avoid another one of your "gosh! could you tell me" time-sink threads.

Hat's off to some fine trolling.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #11 - May 20th, 2015 at 7:47pm
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Hag Master wrote on May 19th, 2015 at 11:58pm:
Sure thing, hopefully I will not forget your name again and I can successfully avoid another one of your "gosh! could you tell me" time-sink threads.

Hat's off to some fine trolling.


Im trying to get real info to help me build up something EE worthy while leaving behind a thread that others can use for the same.

However, for you trolling = someone looking for help on a build.

If you use that as a base for your description I suppose I am.

The thing is that definition clashes with what I understand the word to mean.

A good example would be some overly pretentious and completely rude asshat posting unsupported comments about how well he's doing but cant or wont (lets just say cant) post any specifics because his post would then be torn apart by people on here who know what they are doing.

I've gone back and read over a lot of your posts and this seems to be your theme.

So to quote this douchebag I once heard on DDO Vault, "good job sir, Hat's off to some fine trolling", because at its core, thats all you do.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #12 - May 22nd, 2015 at 1:39pm
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Max SA for mechanic in EE mod since death knights have 100 Prr.

Pure mechanic. Repeater.
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #13 - May 22nd, 2015 at 9:40pm
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Don't forget that the level 18 core jumps great xbow to 15-20x4 while repeaters only gets 17-20 x3
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #14 - May 22nd, 2015 at 11:11pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:39pm:
Max SA for mechanic in EE mod since death knights have 100 Prr.

Pure mechanic. Repeater.


nope.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #15 - May 22nd, 2015 at 11:15pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 9:40pm:
Don't forget that the level 18 core jumps great xbow to 15-20x4 while repeaters only gets 17-20 x3



And that they have 8 more sneak die than repeaters, scaled by ranged power, twice the vorpal chance as well.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #16 - May 22nd, 2015 at 11:23pm
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Hag Master wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:11pm:
nope.


what is the rate of fire on a great crossbow?
I get 27 volleys per 30s on a repeater.
Thats 3.78 hits per second. I highly doubt you're getting that with your craptastic fury build.
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #17 - May 23rd, 2015 at 2:39am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 11:23pm:
what is the rate of fire on a great crossbow?
I get 27 volleys per 30s on a repeater.
Thats 3.78 hits per second. I highly doubt you're getting that with your craptastic fury build.


Which of my builds? of my half-dozen mech builds? of my capped and grinding builds.

Feel free to play with your little repeater mate, just make sure you have 14 Pally levels, otherwise there is no point.

8 more SA die, +2[w] more, 19-20 vorpal more, 15-20X4 more, twice the base [w], by all means enjoy your repeater.

I would try to explain to any other readers just how ignorant and ill-informed you are, and how your trying to jump in here and talk about crap you really don't understand, but honestly? Between the posts you made and the way you got booted from the PC without leaking anything make it pretty clear what a simple wanker you are.

Move along dumbshit move along.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #18 - May 23rd, 2015 at 2:48am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on May 22nd, 2015 at 1:39pm:
Max SA for mechanic in EE mod since death knights have 100 Prr.

Pure mechanic. Repeater.


Max SA? really? Max huh? guessing your using wiki as opposed to the real enhancements sunshine, god this makes me laugh.


MAX SA Sounds like a lame 80's action film.

You clueless fucker, max sa, except for the other 8 sa dice you don't get using a repeater, but hey those extra 8 sa dice you forgot about is only twice as many as you could squeeze out of your little repeater... 4 sa,  Meaning the GxB's 12 SA is just something you didn't know or want to admit.

« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2015 at 3:04am by Hag Master »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #19 - May 23rd, 2015 at 8:34am
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The class name is rouge. Fag.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #20 - May 23rd, 2015 at 2:40pm
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DiddleDoo wrote on May 23rd, 2015 at 8:34am:
The class name is rouge. Fag.


*Rogue. DIAF.
  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #21 - May 23rd, 2015 at 6:09pm
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Hag Master wrote on May 23rd, 2015 at 2:39am:
Which of my builds? of my half-dozen mech builds? of my capped and grinding builds.

Feel free to play with your little repeater mate, just make sure you have 14 Pally levels, otherwise there is no point.

8 more SA die, +2[w] more, 19-20 vorpal more, 15-20X4 more, twice the base [w], by all means enjoy your repeater.

I would try to explain to any other readers just how ignorant and ill-informed you are, and how your trying to jump in here and talk about crap you really don't understand, but honestly? Between the posts you made and the way you got booted from the PC without leaking anything make it pretty clear what a simple wanker you are.

Move along dumbshit move along.


Here .. I was bored.. i think its all accurate.. fix it if its not Cheesy

Both bows are within the same power category.. (ones level 6, the other lvl 7) will add +1 to the lvl 6 to accommodate the level difference.. Both are also named bows, not random gen)
Quote:
Level 6 Reapeater - 1d12+3 (adding 1 for level difference)

Level 7 Greatbow - 1.5(2d8)+3  (which is basically 3d8+3.. anyhow)

gb gets +2 weapon over reapeter = 3.5(2d8)+3 compared to 1d12+3

GB gets 8d6 sneak attack more  (Seriously.. 8 sneak die more on Gbow?.. ill have to look over the rogue changes)

Excluding Vorprals and Crits, we have the reapeter coming in at (assuming pure rogue, for the sake of math) (1d12+3+10d6)*3 (Since it fires 3 rounds compared to 1 gbow.) on a sneak attack. a range of 14-75 dmg per shot (42-225 dmg per volley)


Now the Gbow - (3.5(2d8)+3 + 18d6)  = 28-167 per shot (i think.. ~does proof~ (2d8) 3.5 times = (2d8)+(2d8)+(2d8)+(1d8) = 7d8.. range of 10 to 59.. add 18 to 10 for min of 28.. 18 by 6 is 105, added to 59 for 164 max.. ) yup, was right Cheesy..


So without any critting or vorprals, a repeater comes out on top (with the data given. I know enhancments add +2 to gbows and only +1 to repeaters.. which favors the gbow in the end), now with a 25% chance to crit for 4 times the dmg, we get..  112-656 on gbow over the course of 12 shots (since repeater is a 3 volley, 4 shots by repeater = 12 by gbow) we get a total of:


784-4942 dmg with Gbow (9 shots registered as non-crit, 3 as crit) (I think my crit rates off.. i think its actually 30% chance, not 25%.. ~shrug~ its late.. )

504-2700 dmg with a repeater, assuming all 12 shots crit..



« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2015 at 6:13pm by Vendui »  
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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #22 - May 24th, 2015 at 8:18am
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Hag Master wrote on May 23rd, 2015 at 2:39am:
Which of my builds? of my half-dozen mech builds? of my capped and grinding builds.

Feel free to play with your little repeater mate, just make sure you have 14 Pally levels, otherwise there is no point.

8 more SA die, +2[w] more, 19-20 vorpal more, 15-20X4 more, twice the base [w], by all means enjoy your repeater.

I would try to explain to any other readers just how ignorant and ill-informed you are, and how your trying to jump in here and talk about crap you really don't understand, but honestly? Between the posts you made and the way you got booted from the PC without leaking anything make it pretty clear what a simple wanker you are.

Move along dumbshit move along. 


I asked for actual rate of fire numbers. You're not interested in objective comparison?

Getting half as many hits per second is not worth the benefits of a GC.

Shit talking aside. I haven't run into a great GC user that has outdone a repeater on G-land. And Fury as a destiny?...
...

Screenshot of you soloing if ya don't mind.

Also hagfag.


  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #23 - May 24th, 2015 at 8:19am
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Have bruntsmashed 4200 on a repeater in blitz Vendui
  

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Re: rogue. what level do G xbows start shining?
Reply #24 - May 24th, 2015 at 4:48pm
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on May 24th, 2015 at 8:18am:
Getting half as many hits per second is not worth the benefits of a GC.



I am hard pressed to decide what makes you more ignorant, thinking this, or being so fucking clueless that you would publicly post on the Vault something that displays just how uninformed you are. I mean seriously? are you that thick that you can come to this conclusion?

Thank the gods they kicked you off the PC, I can only imagine the damage you would have done if this is a fair example of your level of ignorance, I mean really? you stupid stupid fucker. 
« Last Edit: May 24th, 2015 at 4:52pm by Hag Master »  
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