Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Spelltouched shuriken (Read 10402 times)
gibbon
Dragon Raider
***
Offline


smhma in a cube

Posts: 256
Joined: Sep 10th, 2014
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #25 - Dec 2nd, 2015 at 11:31am
Print Post  
gibbon wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 6:46pm:
Spelltouched is still spellplague. It does what it says it does then rolls something else from the list on every throw. Still, 16 and 20 are easier to justify than 24.


5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 1st, 2015 at 11:12pm:
*Mathematical justification*

Well, apparently not that hard to justify. Thank you for the schooling.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
harharharhar
Epic Poster
*****
Offline


Girthless Trolllicker

Posts: 3421
Joined: Aug 31st, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #26 - Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:41pm
Print Post  
gibbon wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 11:31am:
Well, apparently not that hard to justify. Thank you for the schooling.


T1 Thunderforged: 3.5W, +9
T2 Thunderforged: 4.5W, +11
Spelltouched: 2W, +6

So actually 5Foot made a number of errors in his calculations. For one thing, it's not 3.75 damage. It's 3-5 from enchantment, 2.25-3.75 from Ws which is actually 5.25-8.375 damage difference. Moreover, this is BASE damage, not proc damage, which is actually quite a bit more important than proc damage, since it can be critted, and Overwhelmingly critted, and Sniper Shot critted, etc. Even moreover, his calcualtions are for a perfectly rolled Cormyrian shuriken, which virtually no one has ever had the mats for. Even moreover, it's only against trash, and not bosses where level drain is useless.

Also, against mobs which you cannot crit, the augment level drain is acctually better, since you don't have to crit, just roll a 20.

5Foot is mistaken. Do not use a lvl 24 Cormyrian shuriken past level 24. If you don't have an absolutely perfect one with level drain, dont use one past level 20, and even then only on trash, if you have one with level drain. 
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:43pm by harharharhar »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Grand
Ex Member
*


I Love Drama!

Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #27 - Dec 2nd, 2015 at 9:06pm
Print Post  
Good thread gents, you have for the most part avoided the bitch route and churned out a ton of good info and opinions, keep it up.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
harharharhar
Epic Poster
*****
Offline


Girthless Trolllicker

Posts: 3421
Joined: Aug 31st, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #28 - Dec 2nd, 2015 at 10:12pm
Print Post  
Also, level drain is on crit, but only 33% chance to drain. So, if you crit on 19-20, like my builds in FoTW, it's a 6.6% to land a level drain, versus 5% chance with a Ruby of Endless Night.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
5 Foot Step
Completionist (i.t.p.)
******
Offline


I Hate Idiots!

Posts: 11119
Location: USA
Joined: Mar 8th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #29 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 11:36pm
Print Post  
harharharhar wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:41pm:
T1 Thunderforged: 3.5W, +9
T2 Thunderforged: 4.5W, +11
Spelltouched: 2W, +6

So actually 5Foot made a number of errors in his calculations. For one thing, it's not 3.75 damage. It's 3-5 from enchantment, 2.25-3.75 from Ws which is actually 5.25-8.375 damage difference. Moreover, this is BASE damage, not proc damage, which is actually quite a bit more important than proc damage, since it can be critted, and Overwhelmingly critted, and Sniper Shot critted, etc. Even moreover, his calcualtions are for a perfectly rolled Cormyrian shuriken, which virtually no one has ever had the mats for. Even moreover, it's only against trash, and not bosses where level drain is useless.



I counted 5 for the enhancement difference and 3.75 for the [W] in my calculation. You can multiply it by 1.2 full time and by 1.4 for one throw every six seconds or whatever, it's still not going to come out ahead.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:41pm:
Also, against mobs which you cannot crit, the augment level drain is acctually better, since you don't have to crit, just roll a 20.

Also, level drain is on crit, but only 33% chance to drain. So, if you crit on 19-20, like my builds in FoTW, it's a 6.6% to land a level drain, versus 5% chance with a Ruby of Endless Night.


[citation needed]

You think that critical effects do not go off if the critical is negated by fortification?

Also, 6.6% vs 5%....hmm, which one is more?

Also also, you of all people should know that your own build uses 12 ranger levels and heavy DWS and therefore crits on an 18. Other builds can crit on a 17 or even 16.

harharharhar wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:41pm:
5Foot is mistaken. Do not use a lvl 24 Cormyrian shuriken past level 24. If you don't have an absolutely perfect one with level drain, dont use one past level 20, and even then only on trash, if you have one with level drain. 


Nope, if you got em, use em. You'll still want to carry TF though.
  

Build links
Endgame Gear Guide
Cannith Crafting Planner link

Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
harharharhar
Epic Poster
*****
Offline


Girthless Trolllicker

Posts: 3421
Joined: Aug 31st, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #30 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:38am
Print Post  
5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 11:36pm:
I counted 5 for the enhancement difference and 3.75 for the [W] in my calculation. You can multiply it by 1.2 full time and by 1.4 for one throw every six seconds or whatever, it's still not going to come out ahead.


[citation needed]

You think that critical effects do not go off if the critical is negated by fortification?

Also, 6.6% vs 5%....hmm, which one is more?

Also also, you of all people should know that your own build uses 12 ranger levels and heavy DWS and therefore crits on an 18. Other builds can crit on a 17 or even 16.


Nope, if you got em, use em. You'll still want to carry TF though.


I'm runing 14m/6r at the moment, crit on 19-20
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Grand
Ex Member
*


I Love Drama!

Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #31 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:51am
Print Post  
5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 11:36pm:
Also also, you of all people should know that your own build uses 12 ranger levels and heavy DWS and therefore crits on an 18. Other builds can crit on a 17 or even 16.



Bard splash!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Orange Flash
Waterworks Kobold
**
Offline


Can you get the citation?

Posts: 159
Location: Japan
Joined: Dec 1st, 2014
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #32 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 4:25pm
Print Post  
Grand wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:51am:
Bard splash!


you are suggesting something like...

halfling 12 ranger 7 bard 1 X?

maybe you can reach higher crit lvls, but without monk and 10k star i think you lose a lot dps, coz you lose doubleshot bonus and core2 from monk tree to proc extra shuri....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alex DeLarge
Epic Poster
*****
Offline


Get ready for some of
the 'ol in-out, in-out

Posts: 3467
Location: Foggy Albion
Joined: May 11th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #33 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 6:32am
Print Post  
Grand wrote on Dec 5th, 2015 at 11:51am:
Bard splash!


Not sure if the Crit multiplier bug was even addressed yet, let alone fixed Cheesy
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Forest
Ex Member


Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #34 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 3:53pm
Print Post  
Alex DeLarge wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 6:32am:
Not sure if the Crit multiplier bug was even addressed yet, let alone fixed Cheesy


Still broke, Kookie said it's "in the cue to be fixed as soon as someone assigns a Dev to do so" bollocks, he was the only Dev who would take any comments about pre-existing problems. Varg, Cordo, all hid behind the excuse that we needed to debug the new stuff.

Several of us tried to point out that things like the Crit multiplier and the bugged TF blindness were more urgent now in light of the coming Mortal fear changes, they just ignored us. 4 of my buddies and I tried to get them to address it, but Kookie was the only one, and would only talk about it seriously in Tells.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Galadriel
DQ Assaulter
*****
Offline


I Love Drama!

Posts: 419
Location: Middle Earth
Joined: May 20th, 2015
Gender: Female
Re: Spelltouched shuriken
Reply #35 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 12:26am
Print Post  
Quote:
Several of us tried to point out that things like the Crit multiplier and the bugged TF blindness were more urgent now in light of the coming Mortal fear changes, they just ignored us. 4 of my buddies and I tried to get them to address it, but Kookie was the only one, and would only talk about it seriously in Tells.


This was my own experience as well. I added in the Strange Tidings bluff deception not working at all, among other small things that should rightly take 20 minutes to fix, and got /crickets in reply.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint