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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) Need help with the important stuffs... (Read 21027 times)
AtomicMew
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #50 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 3:24pm
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Jiudark wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:24am:
News to me that LGS has an internal cooldown.  That was never an obvious thing to me in actual gameplay last life (that Champion of Juiblex build).  I was getting large puddings and arcane oozes spawned randomly, and at about the same rate and/or frequency I experienced with heroic OozeII.  There was more multiple times I'd spawn both a black and a green from doublestriking during same attack sequence.

I suppose it works differently for caster procs, but given how they changed triple earth multi-proccing, it was my assumption (likely flawed based on your results). 

My other impression from lamma testing on casters was that legendary ooze is a global buff, so it didn't matter whether offhand or mainhand.  Are you dual wielding legendary oozes?  Have you tried main hand heroic ooze and offhand legendary ooze, see if it makes additional procs that way?
  
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Jiudark
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #51 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:19pm
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@KG: Yeah, I totally feel you on the grind.  Ooze was just important enough for me to make it my first LGS weapon.  Will I do it again knowing it takes me about eight weeks of mats grinding if the raid has playable levels of lag?  Probably not, especially since we no longer have even playable lag.  But I'm glad I have the thing and can now move on to better LGS recipes.

@AM: Judging from videos on YouTube of casters and my own experience as a melee, my educated guess is that a spellcaster is essentially only casting 1 attack, however many MM spams from shiradi (as an example) they get as a result, so they're only getting a single 1% check (remember ooze is a 1 not a 2 percent proc).  Whereas every single attack on a melee has that as well, but the double or even triple strikes are counting as separate d20 rolls, thereby generating a chance at a ooze proc.  So it would seem faster ooze proccing as a high attack speed/high doublestrike build.  I'm not a theorycrafter and am only reporting my observed actual gameplay results over many years, so take that as you will.  Although admittedly, that experience has been primarily with heroic ooze and only a few months with one LGS ooze weapon on one build.

As for dual wielding, I am not.  I still do not have anywhere near enough mats to make another LGS ooze even if I wanted to (and I don't currently).  I do have and still use my OozeII Guard HGS Helmet though, and that procs just as normal, so I don't think it has any interaction with the LGS ooze sword I use.  As my pet build was a SWF build, I couldn't realistically test dualwielding my HGS ooze rapier and LGS ooze shortsword.  But as I mentioned above, I do not believe the two weapons would stop the other from proccing their own oozes, perhaps because they spawn completely different monster CRs, or perhaps because as I've observed there is not an internal hidden cooldown on ooze procs.  But, this is turbine we're dealing with, so nerfing something so ridiculously underpowered isn't below them.
« Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:21pm by Jiudark »  
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Jiudark
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #52 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:26pm
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As a side note, I've now begun some PDK grinding and made a winter wolf fighter/ranger/druid.  All SWF/TWF/NF on plan, currently lvl 16.  Once I get to 26 I'll try testing the dual wield for us and finding out unless someone beats me to the punch (but I'll be doing testing regardless of anyone else's published findings).

As I replied to Tilo a few replies ago, I'm noticing a distinct lack of ooze strength/viability without Augment Summons or anything supporting pets.  So I have much more oomph in my character, but swinging the pendulum that direction made my heroic oozes nearly ineffectual.  They DO still taunt the shit out of mobs about 100 feet away though, so I guess they're not completely without value.  At least they enable my form's SA damage.
  
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Tilo
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #53 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 12:24am
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I found something interesting out. They seem to have some sort of dungeon scaling effect going on. Not only are the CR based on dungeon difficulty and not dungeon level, they have some sort of raid or player scaling, at least in some dungeons.

In EE Fall of Truth my ooze was hitting (non-crit) for 11-1300.




This may explain why in some 5 mans I noticed my pets only doing as low as 1/50th of my damage, but in EN/EH shroud raids it goes up to 1/7th.

I attack around 9x/sec in a raid beating on a hp bag. I'm definitely not getting an ooze every 11 sec. 3 Oozes out at a time is normal. This appears to have the same proc limitations as +++ of effectively once per minute max, although AoE attacks may multiproc during that minute.

I should run Reaver's Fate HE and see what's going on.
« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2016 at 4:31pm by »  
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Jiudark
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #54 - Apr 1st, 2016 at 2:41am
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Quote:
In EE Fall of Truth my ooze was hitting (non-crit) for 11-1300.


Now imagine if you had my full tropical thunder pet buffing going on how much harder they'd hit with +28 All stats,  +50 Melee power, 1% Chance each attack to: knockdown, 20d20 sonic dmg, 20d20 electrical dmg.  Great dpS?  Still no.  Noticeable damage though? Yes. 

And more importantly, every EE/LE mob attacking an ooze with a few thousand HP, 25% displacement, 105 PRR, 45 MRR, 20% dodge, Evasion, and Elusive Target is an enemy not attacking you or the party/raid.

Also, thanks for posting pics.  Backs up my results as not unusual or lies.
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2016 at 2:55am by Jiudark »  
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Tilo
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #55 - Apr 6th, 2016 at 4:34pm
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Mmm been thinking about number of oozes spawning. I think this is the same once per minute max proc of +++ LGS, but it may multiproc on that once per minute attack.

So shuriken is the best delivery method, warlock AoE 2nd, and DoD isn't bad either.

With the 1% proc rate and once per minute proc timer, you are looking at normally having 2-3 out on most characters.

Due to this, the damage of the oozes will never be that significant, but it isn't that far off from vacuum.

It is uknown if swapping weapons will allow a second and third set of oozes to spwan, or if the once per minute timer is character specific. I think it will be the same for +++ so an answer should be known.

On a plus side, my exploitus maximus species wolf is great for short man raids.
« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2016 at 4:40pm by »  
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AtomicMew
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #56 - Apr 6th, 2016 at 5:31pm
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If there is a timer, I don't think it's 1 minute, since I recall seeing procs come off shortly after another.  Perhaps there's just a hard maximum of 3-4 oozes at a time.
  
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Tilo
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #57 - Apr 6th, 2016 at 6:25pm
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It's just the epic LGS as well. The heroic one I can spawn a swarm with. I think I'll swap to a 13 rogue/5 ranger/2 druid replacing LGS damage with sneak attack + LD, and then drop the LGS weapon altogether and go back to my heroic one.

The weapon and oozes aren't a significant source of damage epic or heroic, and you get 1/5th as many oozes out of the epic one, and the heroic ones are tanky enough for EE/LE anyways.

Plus I have this crazy idea of shape shifting a great crossbow to try out...
« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2016 at 7:18pm by »  
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Tilo
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #58 - Apr 6th, 2016 at 7:15pm
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2 Druid (1d6 wolf)> 5 Ranger > 13 Rogue (7d6) 10 Epic (30 MP) Human

Stats 14 Dex for Feats, Max Con, All levelups in Con

Feats

1 SWF Precision (balance 2)
3 SM
6 Sneak of Shadows
9 SWF#2 (Balance 4)
12 TWF#2 (Dex 17, tomes +3)
15 TWF#3
18 SWF#3 (Balance 7) (6 MP)
21 Epic SA (3d6)
24 LSM
26 PTWF
27 IC:B
28 Silver Bypass (bugged breaks on zone/rest/death until re-equip)
29 Chaos
30 Scion of Ethereal
30 OC

Rogue Feats, Def. Roll, Opportunist (3% DS)

ED: LD with Balanced/Consecrate/Sacred Ground/LSM (88 MP, 8% DS)

Enhancements:

Tempest 35 (DoD, 4% DS)
Assassin 28 (4d6, 5 MP, Killer 20% DS, -15% threat, boost)
DWS 6 (3d6)
TA 8 (-40% threat, -15% threat, movement speed)
6 Tempest (Offhand)
3 Human HAMP



Heroic Ooze GS Axe/ Vaccuum swap in to prep bosses
Epic Blazing Sun Orb
Madstone Boots (20% AS)
Fabricator's Bracers (5% DS)
Celestial Avenger Armor (socketed blind immune/fear immune, 17% DS)
Epic Litany (socketed Golem's Heart+Nat Armor)
Epic Hide of the Fallen Cloak (str, armor pen, socketed prot)
Iron Mitts Gloves (hamp 60%, vit, socked Globe)
Epic Belt of Thoughtful Rememberance (con, resist, dodge, socketed spot, )
Necklace of Mystic Eidolons (ghostly, ins con, ins dex, aug summon, socketed Soul Gem)
Seal of House Avithoul (imp. dec, sneak +5)
Ring Dead/Archmagi (Legacy)
Accuracy of Insightful Sheltering Helm
LGS Dex Skills Goggles +39/HP
Epic Quiver of Alacrity (ins sneak +4)

129 Avg Melee Power


18d6 sneak + 14 sneak item + 45 sneak Scion of Ethereal + 15 Sneak of Shadows = 137 x 1.5 scaling x 1.2 (vulnerable) x 2.29 (melee power) = 564 dmg/hit

100 Physical x 2.29 MP x 1.2 vulnerable x 1.4 crit = 384 dmg/hit

Chaos/Misc Ooze (60/hit)

71% Double Strike with killer stacked @ BaB 20 is 7.9 attacks/sec.

1k dmg/hit @ 7.1 hits /sec (8.5 attacks/sec) = 7k dps with heroic GS Ooze axe before action boosts. (would be 8k with LGS vacuum, 10k dual boosted)

Basically if you want to make an ooze build, make a LGS Vacuum weapon instead to swap in to prep bosses, and use the heroic version of ooze instead. You will barely notice the difference on trash, and will do the same damage with vulnerability instead on bosses.
« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2016 at 11:56am by »  
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Tilo
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Oozestar
Reply #59 - Apr 7th, 2016 at 4:57am
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Elf Lawful Goodness

18 Monk 1 Warlock 1 Fighter

Feats: (8 DC)
1 PBS  Monk: Shuriken Expertise
2 Monk: Deflect Arrows
3 Quick Draw
6 Rapid Shot Monk: 10k Stars
9 Precise Shot
12 Completionist
15 IPS (Dex 19, tomes +4)
18 Dragonmark
20 Combat Expertise
21 SF:Enchant  (1 DC)
24 Embolden (2 DC)
26 Silver
27 Haste
28 Double Shot
29 Chaos
30 Scion of Feywild (4 DC)
30 GSF:Enchant (1 DC)

Stats:
Max Dex, All level ups in Dex
Max Wisdom

Enhancements:

AA 41 (4 DC 6 Dex, Final Strike, Imbues for bosses 25% double strike)
Elf 18 AA, (1 DC, 2 dex, displacement)
NiS 11 More shurikens/shadow fade
HeM 8 Ki Regen
TS 2   -4 Fort Debuff

Wisdom@30 = 18 +7 tome + 2 ship + 15/7 item + 4 stance +1 Globe + 2 Festive + 2 Completionist + 2 Profane + 2 Yugo +6 level ups = 68

ED: Shiradi 5 Dex
Twists: 2-2-2-1-1  ICE, Draconic Presence, Spell School Specialist: Enchantment, Enlightenment, Cocoon

DC:
Feats 8 DC
ED total 6 DC
Item (+6 Enhancement +2 Insight) 8 DC
Augment 2
Ship Buff 1 DC
Enhancements 5 DC
Stats 26 DC
Base 20 DC

Weapon: LGS Ooze Shuriken

79 Terror Arrows DC

Spell Pen: Unnecessary: applied on-hit.

Dex: 20 base 7 tome 1 levelups 15/3/1 item 2 completionist 5 ED 2 Yugo 2 Profane 8 enhancements = 66

> 4.4 shuriken/sec
« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2016 at 7:43pm by »  
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fr8o
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #60 - Apr 7th, 2016 at 7:10am
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I kind of want to do this now just because the lols
  
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Tilo
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Re: Need help with the important stuffs...
Reply #61 - Apr 7th, 2016 at 1:42pm
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Option A: LGS Ooze/terror shuriken every 5 seconds mob has to save vs death or die.

Option B: LGS vacuum, 8k dps up to 10k with action boosts, which goes to 20k vs helpless, every 5 seconds mob just takes 40-100k dmg and dies off of raw damage.
  
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