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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Kensei Shuriken (Read 56566 times)
5 Foot Step
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #25 - May 29th, 2016 at 6:54pm
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fr8o wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Or does inferno shot have an initial tick immediately when it applies instead of 2 seconds later?


Isn't that what I said?
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #26 - May 30th, 2016 at 7:43pm
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This looks really good on paper, even Otto's worthy.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #27 - Jun 1st, 2016 at 1:49pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on May 29th, 2016 at 10:33am:
Well, are you right? Can anyone confirm? I haven't noticed Inferno Shot count as a spell for anything else. Harbinger is pretty sweet, but +20 RP and +20 SP would totally be worth it.



Bioboi doesn't confirm 5FS,  he just writes what he has seen other people post... and occasionally makes shit up to feel time between updating his character bios and sucking off Cordo.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #28 - Jun 1st, 2016 at 2:02pm
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For your Epic destiny. How did you reach shadow form without the other two pre-reqs (Imp invisibility x1 and Untouchable). In addition, you would need 1 rank of technician to have skill mastery. Assuming you took 3 ranks of Grim Precision, you would need another 4 points to accomplish this.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #29 - Jun 1st, 2016 at 2:40pm
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DragonCrotch wrote on Jun 1st, 2016 at 2:02pm:
For your Epic destiny. How did you reach shadow form without the other two pre-reqs (Imp invisibility x1 and Untouchable). In addition, you would need 1 rank of technician to have skill mastery. Assuming you took 3 ranks of Grim Precision, you would need another 4 points to accomplish this.


Fixed.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #30 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 1:28pm
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Scion of the Ethereal Plane adds roughly 30 sneak attack damage? How does that look vs Scion of Arborea with 20 RP, some spell power, and freeing up the lvl 18 feat for some swap maybe mobility then dex at 27 or something?
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016 at 6:11pm by fr8o »  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #31 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 2:42pm
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fr8o wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 1:28pm:
Scion of the Ethereal Plane adds roughly 30 sneak attack damage?


The feat is 1/3 of your hide mod as sneak attack and +4 spellpower (via spellcraft).

I ballparked 100 standing hide mod as easily attainable. Minmax optimization will get you a lot more, but I didn't have a full gear layout for this build yet. Then SoS adds 30 as a boost, but is pretty much always available with TF draconic reinvigor. Then that 45+ sneak attack damage is multiplied by 1.5 of 100+ ranged power.

TL;DR= I did some maths and ethereal with 150 hide mod at 120 ranged power comes out ahead of arborea.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #32 - Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:06pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 6th, 2016 at 2:42pm:
Then SoS adds 30 as a boost, but is pretty much always available with TF draconic reinvigor.


Draconic reinvigoration doesn't seem to give back SoS charges. Is there a feature I'm missing?
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #33 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 11:30am
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Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 28th, 2016 at 12:06pm:
Draconic reinvigoration doesn't seem to give back SoS charges. Is there a feature I'm missing?


Hmm, I will have to look into that.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #34 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 11:36am
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Probably better served by dropping improved evasion and going:

8 monk/6 fighter/6 ranger

Then you can choose between blitz and fury depending on content.

I don't think shadowdancer is worth it - dps calcs say ranged power from blitz outweighs the additional sneak die. And adrenaline does 4x sneak damage as well (if you decide you want to go the fury route).

If the reason is 25% incorp, it certainly is nice. However, I think on a ranged build you should be able to kite/space enough that the incorp won't matter too much. (there's also shadow cookies if needed)
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #35 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 12:39pm
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Quote:
Shadow Mastery: Passive Bonus: You now have Evasion. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds).
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #36 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 1:07pm
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25% precision
5% ship
15% grim
21% armor piercing
25% assassins trick
25% mark of the hunted
-------------------
106% fortification and sneak bypass w/ 1 ranger and 1 mechanic in party (add on 50% on constructs from wracking shot and smiting arrows)

Plenty of fort/sneak bypass when raiding
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #37 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 4:00pm
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Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 29th, 2016 at 1:07pm:
25% precision
5% ship
15% grim
21% armor piercing
25% assassins trick
25% mark of the hunted
-------------------
106% fortification and sneak bypass w/ 1 ranger and 1 mechanic in party (add on 50% on constructs from wracking shot and smiting arrows)

Plenty of fort/sneak bypass when raiding


It doesn't matter how much fortification you bypass if the mob is immune to sneak attack. Sneak attack immunity is a yes/no flag separate from fortification.

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« Last Edit: Nov 25th, 2016 at 12:58pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #38 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 4:19pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 29th, 2016 at 4:00pm:
It doesn't matter how much fortification you bypass if the mob is immune to sneak attack. Sneak attack immunity is a yes/no flag separate from fortification.


(Combat_ImmuneToSneakAttack): True

I'm going to have to sack up and admit that I didn't forget this in that other thread, I didn't know it.

Thanks for the tip.

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #39 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 5:55pm
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Will need to do more testing to see if this is entirely true:

assassin's trick seems to indicate that it partially removes this based on ingame text description?

Thanks for the info!
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #40 - Jun 29th, 2016 at 5:56pm
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What's your rationale then for not going shadowdancer on your assassin build?
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #41 - Jun 30th, 2016 at 11:17am
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Assassin's Trick fully bypasses sneak attack immunity.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #42 - Jun 30th, 2016 at 11:54am
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So realistically, in a raid environment: blitz / fury is hands down better (since you'll most likely have a mechanic).

Definitely an option for solo / small party play though Smiley

Thanks for the information!
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #43 - Jun 30th, 2016 at 12:08pm
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Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 30th, 2016 at 11:54am:
So realistically, in a raid environment: blitz / fury is hands down better (since you'll most likely have a mechanic).


Roll Eyes

You don't always have a mech, and they don't always take Wrack Construct, because they don't always know about sneak attack immunity, and even if they do, they aren't always attacking the same target as you, and even if they are, they aren't always spamming that attack.

Your faith in puggers is disturbing.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #44 - Jun 30th, 2016 at 12:24pm
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LOL yeah I generally agree about puggers being pileons...though I will say some of them can surprise every now and again.

However, when I said raid environment - I meant guild runs w/ approved friends.

Also, I don't know what server you are on but mechanics are everywhere on my server. I don't think I've done a raid without a mechanic in the group in a LONG time. Smiley
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #45 - Jul 1st, 2016 at 6:45am
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5, why no blinding speed @ lvl27? Is the shuriken speed already capped or any gear that provides 22% ranged alacrity?
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #46 - Jul 1st, 2016 at 3:36pm
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Jul 1st, 2016 at 6:45am:
5, why no blinding speed @ lvl27? Is the shuriken speed already capped or any gear that provides 22% ranged alacrity?

There is no gear that I am aware of that gives 22% ranged alacrity.  The thing about shuriken builds though is that they hit a point of diminishing returns for haste when combined with attack speed increases from BAB, feats, and Whirling Wrists.  With everything else, it probably grants a realistic benefit of 1-2% over 15% item-based alacrity.

Personally, I take blinding speed because it's still a small increase in DPS plus it gives you a point of reflex save and dodge.  Plus, I'm lazy and don't scroll Tensor's full-time so it helps a bit more when BAB is not maxed.
« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2016 at 3:39pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #47 - Jul 1st, 2016 at 3:55pm
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Digimonk wrote on Jul 1st, 2016 at 3:36pm:
There is no gear that I am aware of that gives 22% ranged alacrity.  The thing about shuriken builds though is that they hit a point of diminishing returns for haste when combined with attack speed increases from BAB, feats, and Whirling Wrists.  With everything else, it probably grants a realistic benefit of 1-2% over 15% item-based alacrity.

Personally, I take blinding speed because it's still a small increase in DPS plus it gives you a point of reflex save and dodge.  Plus, I'm lazy and don't scroll Tensor's full-time so it helps a bit more when BAB is not maxed.


This is a good summary I think of why people should usually take Blinding Speed. Also allows one to ignore Speed on gear.
  
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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #48 - Jul 1st, 2016 at 5:23pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jul 1st, 2016 at 3:55pm:
This is a good summary I think of why people should usually take Blinding Speed. Also allows one to ignore Speed on gear.

Last time I checked (~2 updates ago), Armor of Speed still adds 1 to Reflex on top of Blinding Speed. So there's that little compensation if, god help you, you're still playing an Artificer.
  

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Re: Kensei Shuriken
Reply #49 - Jul 4th, 2016 at 11:22am
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Alex DeLarge wrote on Jul 1st, 2016 at 6:45am:
5, why no blinding speed @ lvl27? Is the shuriken speed already capped or any gear that provides 22% ranged alacrity?


The others are correct that no gear gives 22%; however, they ignore the fact that the actual haste spell also gives 22%. So if you are able to reliably mooch it and/or have a stack of cl20 pots there is no optimization reason to give up 2 ranged power. Blinding Speed would just be a convenience feat.
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2016 at 11:22am by 5 Foot Step »  

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