5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 24^th, 2016 at 5:33pm:


Obviously hasn't played a bow user since the manyshot/10k stars nerf:

1) they both suck

2) manyshot sucks much less than 10k

5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 24^th, 2016 at 5:33pm:

While 10ks is definitely good, I'm not sure it's that much better than the core 5s and a capstone.

With 6 monk levels and 50 Wis, 10ks gives 19 ranged power and 30% doubleshot every 30s out of 60s. 

Assuming you use Manyshot every 120s, you get three 10ks every 120s if you use it every time it's off timer.  That averages out to what?  +10 or +11 ranged power and 15-18% doubleshot?

DWS core 5 gives passive 10% fort bypass.  AA core 5 gives passive 5% doubleshot.  That closes the gap to 10ish ranged power and 10-13% doubleshot.

AA capstone gives for +4 Dex and 20% doubleshot.  It gives up 10 ranged power vs 10ks but is 7-10% doubleshot ahead so should be comparable.

Better yet, go with the DWS capstone which gives 4 Dex, 3 SA die, perma PBS+SA range, 20 spell power and 20 ranged power.  This puts a pure ranger +10 ahead on ranged power.  I suspect that the other bonuses from the capstone are pretty comparable to 10-13% doubleshot overall.

A pure ranger may be less bursty, but in the long run should be fairly comparable to a 14/6 or 12/6/2 with 6 monk and 10ks.

Digimonk wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 12:30am:


Wrong. 10k stars gives 5% doubleshot per monk level, and your wisdom score to ranged power. 50 wis = 50 ranged power not 19.

Also, AA capstone can be taken by spending an additional 14 AP in helf tree (really this is 11-13 more because you would have already spent 1-3 for dex and damage boost), while also getting 10k stars. Bottomline, monk levels do more for you than ranger levels once you get past level 6 in ranger.

IMO, bow isn't viable alone. You need to couple it with shuriken to get comparable dps to other top builds. I spreadsheeted a few different builds and without shuriken use, dps drops by over 40% for intervals longer than 20 seconds. Not to mention, that adrenaline recharge is significantly and intangible better with shurikens than with bow/arrow.

Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:02am:

Oops.  I misread the 10ks description and thought it was your Wis score bonus.  10ks will be better than I thought.  Thanks for correcting me. 


5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 10:14am:

Using the correct bonuses for 10k Stars w/ 6 monk @ 50 wisdom gives 30 doublestrike and 50 ranged power for 60s out of every 120s assuming you also use Manyshot every time it is off timer.

That means 10k Stars averages out over time to 15% doublestrike and 25 ranged power assuming you have enough Ki to use it every time it is off timer.  That 25 ranged power balances/cancels out the extra 25 ranged power you could get from DWS T5 and capstone.

The 2 extra Imbue Die from AA will essentially balance out against the 2 extra SA die from DWS.

Here's the breakdown after eliminating all the shared/duplicate benefits:

14/6 Half-Elf Ranger/Monk with Elf AA Capstone & T5s + T4 DWS:

• 10k Stars - 15% doublestrike
• Arrow of Slaying
• Final Strike AE

20 Human Ranger with DWS Capstone & T5s + T4 AA:

• 5 spell power
• 10% Fort Bypass
• Aimed Shot (faster AF stacking)
• Leg Shot (Tendon Slice)
• Merciful Shot
• Head Shot
• Infinite SA range
• 30 extra ranged power while stationary (+10 stacks of AF)

On boss fights/burns, the 15% doubleshot advantage of 10k Stars is largely mitigated by the additional 30 ranged power from Improved Archer's Focus assuming you are stationary.

I have no personal experience with how good or bad Final Strike is but I don't believe it scales with ranged or spell power so I can't see it being amazing.

Arrow of Slaying is definitely sweet but I don't see 10k Stars + Arrow of Slaying + Final Strike being significantly better than all the additional things DWS gives you instead.

One build may be better than the other, but I think they'll end up being pretty close in actual game play.  I expect the AA half-elf would be more bursty and the pure DWS ranger would be more consistent.


Dr Faustus wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 8:02am:

I 100% agree with this but like FFS said, I think the OP was interested in full-time bow use.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 2:09pm:

You know... given how strong the Kensai lvl 18 core and capstone are, I'd almost think that a pure fighter using Half-Elf for AA access might be a candidate for the best full-time bow user build.

Kensai lvl 18 core + capstone +T5s would give 40 ranged power, 2 Dex, 15% doubleshot, 4 extra ABs.

Holds its own versus DWS capstone + T5 benefits of 4 Dex, 3 SA die, 20 ranged power and 20% doubleshot.

Could go Int to hit/dmg via Harper.  Not sure if there are enough APs to spare for that or not, but if so, it would have nice synergy with KTA.

Digimonk wrote on Jun 25^th, 2016 at 1:56pm:


But you are not counting the increased attack speed from shuriken and chance to throw an extra shuriken from shuriken expertise. With 70 dex that means roughly 70% chance to throw and extra shuriken and it can also doubleshot what means you can get 4 shurikens with one animation if your doubleshot is between 0 and 100%, or 6 if your doubleshot is from 100 to 200. And the 4 can be boosted by a single adrenaline + slayer arrow (slayer arrow works with shuriken).

Also, having both 10k stars and manyshot is more sinergetic with adrenaline uses for obvious reasons.

And you are wrong about boss fights, becuase your manyshot is over after 20 seconds, but the epic moment is 30 seconds, so you will suck the last 10 seconds with a bow while the monk splash will change to shuriken... and when these 10 seconds are over his 10k stars will be ready to click while the pure who has only manyshot will keep sucking.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 26^th, 2016 at 11:10am:


*doesn't know how to Furyshot*

There was actually skill to it faggot, and you could do over 1 million damage in 30 seconds with that shit; not that you'd ever know on a monkcher LOL!

Those were the days.

[] wrote on Jun 26^th, 2016 at 12:14pm:


Sounds gimp since you're pushing an unrealistic timeframe.

If you're going to ignore prep time and cooldowns, you might as well double down the derp and go by single seconds. I had ~34,000 point normal adrenaline slaying arrows when shadowfail came out. On a 19 or 20 those could go up to ~57k with a x5 crit. One time I went into the mansion and grabbed the quad damage buff and fury shotted Dr. Rushmore in the face and rolled all four 19-20. 57k times four times four = over 900,000 DPS build.

[] wrote on Jun 26^th, 2016 at 12:14pm:


3.65% of my DPS. Amateur. 

5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 26^th, 2016 at 11:10am:


Nonsense. You can't say that because you can't calculate the DPS in fury. And it doesn't matter because sustained DPS doesn't matter, burst DPS is everything and of course fury wins that.

I don't get why would someone do an archer that is not in Fury. If it is sustained DPS what you want, than do a fucking mlee dam it.

Repeat with me: archers = furyshot harry and furyshot crystal
archers = furyshot harry and furyshot crystal
archers = furyshot harry and furyshot crystal
archers = furyshot harry and furyshot crystal

got it?

What about 14 monk 6 ranger? I've heard that's a viable monkcher split.

5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 26^th, 2016 at 4:40pm:


You already proved you don't understand averages.  Also, no, no you don't faggot; there's absolutely NO need to average ANYTHING when NOTHING can survive your 30 second burst.  Please think before you type, and please, think of the children.

Vaultaccount wrote on Jun 26^th, 2016 at 5:49pm:


That's "Baby Furyshot": manyshot+adren+slayer first arrow, then pump adrenalines during manyshot while unbridaled fury is on cool down.  I swear, 99% of faggots yapping have no idea how to play this fucking game.  It's not hard to do about 400k damage in 30 seconds with this tactic.  Furyshot is better, and Super Furyshot is the exquisiteness.