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Druid Preview (Read 7206 times)

5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #25 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 12:47pm	Print Post
	The bear tree is dumb. It can't decide whether it wants to rage or tank.

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Edrein Abbot Raider Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 987 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Druid Preview Reply #26 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 4:21pm	Print Post
	I think the bear-barian issues stem from the devs not making up their mind on tank or rage DPS. The fact they've added no bonuses to the rage effect beyond an additional +4 strength is a bit meh. I'd easily run 12-18 druid on a DPS bear build. I'm just waiting to see if 2 barb or 1 barb/1 bard would be the better option assuming all three options give you a different way to activate the same rage. Could easily abuse warchanter for being able to cast while raged, low hanging fruit bonuses from all 3 barb trees, and focus on bear. Additionally, depending on whether or not my question on the mobo gets answered about mainhand weapon effects prior to shapeshifting, one might wish to wear robes and abuse GMoF twists while wielding a dagger and dipping into vistani.


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Technomage Epic Poster Offline And so it begins... Posts: 4444 Location: Tucson, AZ Joined: Aug 27^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #27 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:31pm	Print Post
	I foresee LOTS of wolves dipping into the Bear tree for the defensive enhancements.

	Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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Edrein Abbot Raider Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 987 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Druid Preview Reply #28 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 7:04pm	Print Post
	Technomage wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:31pm: I foresee LOTS of wolves dipping into the Bear tree for the defensive enhancements. The irony that bears cannot dip into the wolf tree for DPS bonuses though.


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Metal-Beast Abbot Raider Offline \m/ Posts: 767 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2014	Re: Druid Preview Reply #29 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 8:24pm	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 7:04pm: The irony that bears cannot dip into the wolf tree for DPS bonuses though. This. If I were going to do it... I'd make it: Wolf: Assassin-ish. Focuses on Stealth and co-op with the Wolf Pet to have rotating Sneak Damage. Builds can be DEX based to get utility from new Evasion EnH. Peak DPS would be high, but situational. Would also include option for an "Exposing Strike" type EnH and all DCs use better of WIS or DEX. Bear: Focuses on High PRR/MRR and AoE with Cleaves and Glancing Blows. Alpha Strike comes HERE as an EnH (not sure why a sneak-attack wolf needs a 360� cleave). Heavy Armour proficiency is nice, but just adding more PPR to medium armours like Barb works too. STR and AC/Damage lines like Vanguard. Stunning Shield/Stunning Blow-style Option and an knock down/ knock back a la GxBow. I believe they included a Feral Charge ability so that's fine. Every point spent in the tree increases Threat Gen X% until it works. DCs use better of WIS/CON/STR + EnH that improve DCs + Relevant Gear Bonuses. Peak DPS- Moderate to Good, with excellent mitigation. Rage fucks off forever to live with Barbs and Warchanters. Just my opinion, FWIW.

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Edrein Abbot Raider Offline Master of Melee Undead (Gimps) Posts: 987 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: Druid Preview Reply #30 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:08pm	Print Post
	Metal-Beast wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 8:24pm: This. If I were going to do it... I'd make it: Wolf: Assassin-ish. Focuses on Stealth and co-op with the Wolf Pet to have rotating Sneak Damage. Builds can be DEX based to get utility from new Evasion EnH. Peak DPS would be high, but situational. Would also include option for an "Exposing Strike" type EnH and all DCs use better of WIS or DEX. Bear: Focuses on High PRR/MRR and AoE with Cleaves and Glancing Blows. Alpha Strike comes HERE as an EnH (not sure why a sneak-attack wolf needs a 360� cleave). Heavy Armour proficiency is nice, but just adding more PPR to medium armours like Barb works too. STR and AC/Damage lines like Vanguard. Stunning Shield/Stunning Blow-style Option and an knock down/ knock back a la GxBow. I believe they included a Feral Charge ability so that's fine. Every point spent in the tree increases Threat Gen X% until it works. DCs use better of WIS/CON/STR + EnH that improve DCs + Relevant Gear Bonuses. Peak DPS- Moderate to Good, with excellent mitigation. Rage fucks off forever to live with Barbs and Warchanters. Just my opinion, FWIW. Sounds pretty solid to me. Why not roll the dice and try dropping this on the mobo for giggles.


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Alex DeLarge Epic Poster Offline Get ready for some of the 'ol in-out, in-out Posts: 3468 Location: Foggy Albion Joined: May 11^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #31 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 11:39pm	Print Post
	R.I.P. FUN


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Frank Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1429 Joined: Jan 14^th, 2016	Re: Druid Preview Reply #32 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 5:32am	Print Post
	Metal-Beast wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 10:08pm: I'm willing to bet� the answer is "No". I recall reading somewhere that threat generation has to be on the order of 1000% or more to pull aggro off actual DPS. Apparently the devs are still catching up on this tidbit of trivia. Good hate tanking always required DPS to function. Bear needs more hitting power because even with these buffs it's pretty "meh". And this is from a guy who loves rolling gimps. Huh... Quote: Good hate tanking always required DPS to function. And yet most good tank builds are very low DPS. Oh, noes, you exclaim! Edrein wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 8:19am: I don't think half the playerbase, let alone the devs can be made to understand that a tank needs to deal decent DPS to keep aggro. And yet spending the AP, feats, and ED on defense means that you are by definition a low DPS build.� Learn to meta, because if a tank could roll around with 4k+ HP and huge defenses and also lay out the DPS, the game would be more broken than it already is. Or hey, share with me your secret build that has sooper defenses and also top tier DPS. You read somewhere... I read somewhere: Quote: Additionally, if you successfully intimidate at least one creature, you gain a 12 second buff called Intimidating Presence that provides the following benefits: � � 400% bonus to the threat generated by melee attacks � � 100% bonus to the threat generated by missile attacks and spells So it is clear that if you are trying to Intimidate that you're far better off using melee attacks than spells.� And 12 seconds is more than enough time to trigger a full chain of boosted attacks.� The proposed Bear changes use a mix of melee and spell like abilities such as sonic roars and such.� So it remains to be seen if a Bear form in the new pass will be able to be a strong tank using Intimidate and DPS to grab aggro.� All that can be said at this time is that it appears to be clear that Bears will be better off than they were before. 5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 12:47pm: The bear tree is dumb. It can't decide whether it wants to rage or tank.� Edrein wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 4:21pm: I think the bear-barian issues stem from the devs not making up their mind on tank or rage DPS. Maybe it is a good thing that people look at the Bear and can't peg it into a single slot.� If it manages to be able to be good at tanking and also good at raging depending on the build, that seems like it just might be a good thing.

	No, let me be Frank. Digimonk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 12:39pm: I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive. Smart players know how to use buyback. Digimonk wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:58pm: I will not chone. I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect. Smart people don't elicit "side effects."� They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Metal-Beast Abbot Raider Offline \m/ Posts: 767 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2014	Re: Druid Preview Reply #33 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am	Print Post
	Frank wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 5:32am: And yet spending the AP, feats, and ED on defense means that you are by definition a low DPS build.� Learn to meta, because if a tank could roll around with 4k+ HP and huge defenses and also lay out the DPS, the game would be more broken than it already is. I'll go ahead and let you re-read my statements. They are all qualified. Pay special attention to adjectives and adverbs: They matter. Frank wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 5:32am: I read somewhere: Additionally, if you successfully intimidate at least one creature, you gain a 12 second buff called Intimidating Presence that provides the following benefits: � � 400% bonus to the threat generated by melee attacks � � 100% bonus to the threat generated by missile attacks and spells All valid. Except Intimidate was, and remains, a mug's game because it runs off CHA and basically all non-niche Tank/Melee DPS builds dump CHA. If this ran off of say, WIS or STR or used a different skill like the Shintao tree, that'd be something. But unless I missed something on the read through (which is possible because I'm reading this off my cell phone) nothing of the kind was in the proposed tree. FWIW, I always thought that all the Bluff skills in the Wolf tree were pointless as well, for the same reasons. Again, I am talking de facto... 400% looks great on paper, but without somebody actually play testing it live there's no way to know for certain if that will actually WAI. Frank wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 5:32am: So it remains to be seen if a Bear form in the new pass will be able to be a strong tank using Intimidate and DPS to grab aggro. Agreed. However, the smart money says "This won't work" simply because historically, it never has in any form or permutation of these kinds of EnH trees. Reality trumps Blue Sky Hypotheses. Frank wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 5:32am: If it manages to be able to be good at tanking and also good at raging depending on the build... Universal consensus says this won't happen. See above. It will simply suck at both. Don't get me wrong... I'd love bears to be awesome... But these changes aren't the way to make that happen. Edrein wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:08pm: Sounds pretty solid to me. Why not roll the dice and try dropping this on the mobo for giggles. I'm posting from my phone, and it roundly rejects the mobos as "Unsafe". Even Samsung knows to avoid the official forums.�
	« Last Edit: Feb 9^th, 2018 at 10:42am by Metal-Beast »
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SpaceGoat Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 598 Joined: Oct 14^th, 2015	Re: Druid Preview Reply #34 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 2:45pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 12:47pm: The bear tree is dumb. It can't decide whether it wants to rage or tank.� 💯 agree


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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #35 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 4:57pm	Print Post
	RageTank!

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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #36 - Feb 10^th, 2018 at 5:06am	Print Post
	Edrein wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 8:19am: I don't think half the playerbase, let alone the devs can be made to understand that a tank needs to deal decent DPS to keep aggro. Many have been running uber tanks without swinging weapon once since Intim change.


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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Druid Preview Reply #37 - Feb 10^th, 2018 at 1:16pm	Print Post
	^ Wipey is 100% right. The Devs are retarded but only in kinky ways. Good luck intimidating mindless creatures though...

	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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Flav Vault Frog Offline One Frog to Rule them All! Posts: 9961 Location: Land of the Frogs Joined: Aug 29^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #38 - Feb 11^th, 2018 at 2:14pm	Print Post
	I concur with Wipe and WFB. you don't need to hit anything anymore to get and hold aggro.... Enough intimidate is enough. After that you just turtle up and hit intimidate regularly.

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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #39 - Feb 12^th, 2018 at 12:40pm	Print Post
	Sure, if you want to be a wasted slot. A tank that adds any amount of DPS is always better than a tank that adds zero.

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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Druid Preview Reply #40 - Feb 12^th, 2018 at 1:00pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 12:40pm: Sure, if you want to be a wasted slot. A tank that adds any amount of DPS is always better than a tank that adds zero. Did we change topics? I thought we were talking about whether it was necessary to do DPS to hold aggro. Not whether it was preferable.


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SpaceGoat Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 598 Joined: Oct 14^th, 2015	Re: Druid Preview Reply #41 - Feb 12^th, 2018 at 1:03pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 12^th, 2018 at 12:40pm: Sure, if you want to be a wasted slot. A tank that adds any amount of DPS is always better than a tank that adds zero. Obviously obvious. Just like a tank that keeps aggro more often is > a tank that keeps aggro less often


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Skrilla Puppy Farmer Offline Posts: 1362 Joined: Dec 12^th, 2013	Re: Druid Preview Reply #42 - Feb 12^th, 2018 at 10:21pm	Print Post
	Metal-Beast wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am: I'm posting from my phone, and it roundly rejects the mobos as "Unsafe". Even Samsung knows to avoid the official forums.� Same here... haha


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Charon Ex Member	Re: Druid Preview Reply #43 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 7:54pm	Print Post
	rockz wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 10:38am: I made a shadar-kai bear once.� It looks really funny when the chain is swinging around your little bear body. Otherwise, bears have the best dance emote.� OP Especially when you walk on top of your guild leader and then start the emote, it looks like you're rubbing your self on him.


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Frank Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1429 Joined: Jan 14^th, 2016	Re: Druid Preview Reply #44 - Feb 16^th, 2018 at 4:23am	Print Post
	Metal-Beast wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am: I'll go ahead and let you re-read my statements. They are all qualified. Qualifying your statements doesn't make them more valid. Metal-Beast wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am: Except Intimidate was, and remains, a mug's game because it runs off CHA and basically all non-niche Tank/Melee DPS builds dump CHA. No. Because all an Intim build needs to do is to grab aggro. It isn't a roll, it's a number you need to meet. Metal-Beast wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am: If this ran off of say, WIS or STR or used a different skill like the Shintao tree, that'd be something. Blah blah, it's a number. You meet it or you don't. You wouldn't have this issue with a discussion on DC's right?

	No, let me be Frank. Digimonk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 12:39pm: I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive. Smart players know how to use buyback. Digimonk wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:58pm: I will not chone. I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect. Smart people don't elicit "side effects."� They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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